[SIDE CONVERSATION]

STEVE SVIGGUM: I have to
wait for my signal back.

[SIDE CONVERSATION]

STEVE SVIGGUM: Oh,
and there it is.

Hi.

Well, welcome to you all today
to coming to the Humphrey School

to speak with, learn
from and dialogue

with four wonderful leaders
of the legislature, who

all happen to be women.

And we're going to talk about
women in leadership today.

And I think when you
look at leadership,

it's something that you need
to respect, you need to value

and you need to admire.

And these are four
legislators that you

need to do all those
three things to.

Before I begin today,
before the forum

begins, just a couple
of housekeeping issues,

if we would.

First of all, a
recognition if you would.

I just saw him in the audience,
Senator Dave Durenberger.

David, thank you for coming.

[APPLAUSE]

And a couple other
housekeeping things here.

First of all, MPR has told us
that they are going to tape

this today and rerun tomorrow.

So if as we speak
with each other,

there's a little coldness--

in other words, I might say
Republican Majority Leader Joyce

Peppin rather than just saying
Joyce, it's for the radio.

It's for the folks
out there that

are listening because they may
not know which lady is speaking

and which one is
being referred to.

So it might be a little colder
from the standpoint of using

their official positions.

It's also being
taped on a TV tape.

So we'll be combing my hair and
everything else at that point.

But we will be asking
questions from the audience

in a little bit later.

So there will be some persons
walking up and down the aisles,

getting with cards.

You can ask some questions
of the four leaders

if you would like.

When I kind of spoke to these
four persons about coming today,

I asked them in their
opening comments

to talk about what got them
excited to run, what empowered

them to run for office in
both the service, running,

and then in the
leadership position,

and also to think about
what difference women make

in the legislature of
Minnesota and in the leadership

positions, which all
of them have had,

in the state of Minnesota.

So with that, I'm going to move
over here, if you don't mind.

I better wait till I
get to the microphone

if it's going to be on
NPR and do this correctly.

So first of all, to
all four of them,

we're going to give them a
couple three, four minutes

to make some type of
opening statement.

I'm going to speak to you a
little bit about maybe service

or running for office,
recruiting people

to run for office
that are women.

Then we're going to
talk about some issues.

We're going to talk
about leadership,

what women bring to leadership.

And all these four have or
have had leadership positions

within the legislature
in their caucuses.

First of all, way off to
my left on the far end,

we'll start with
Representative Joyce Peppin.

Republican, from
Rogers, Minnesota.

I think it's 39A.

JOYCE PEPPIN: 34.

STEVE SVIGGUM: 34A the
district from Rogers.

Was elected to be the Majority
Leader when Republicans

took control of the legislature
in the November elections.

Joyce, you and I have
had a long history.

When you talk about
somebody preparing in life

and living the American dream,
the American experiment,

Joyce Peppin would
fill that quite well.

I think I first hired you as
a field staff worker, right?

As a grunt worker out there,
putting up lawn signs,

knocking on doors.

And you've since moved
up to be now the Majority

Leader of the Minnesota House.

Joyce, we'll call
upon you first just

to give a couple of three
minutes of your perspective

of women in leadership and
what empowered you to run.

JOYCE PEPPIN: Well, thank
you so much for your kind

words, Mr. Speaker.

I still call him Mr. Speaker
because as many of you may know,

Steve Sviggum was speaker of
the house for eight years.

I think that's the state record
of a speaker of the House.

As well as Minority
Leader for six years.

So we all have tremendous
respect for him.

I, as a Speaker
Sviggum pointed out,

I started out in politics
shortly after college,

and I did field work, and then
I went off and did some work,

and I worked in the
legislature and did

some work in the private
sector before deciding to run.

And I think what
empowered me to run

is something I
always really wanted

to do in the back of my head.

And I will say that
when I was a teenager,

I thought about wanting to run.

I was very interested in
policy, very interested

in World events
and the news, and I

thought it was maybe
something that I wanted to do

but maybe I never could do.

You kind of doubt yourself a
little bit when you're younger,

but it's something
that I thought about.

And I was still involved in
politics at the local level.

And there was a sitting
Republican legislator

who I worked with and
who was at the Capitol.

And while I viewed
with him on many--

I agreed with him on
many of his issues,

I didn't agree with him
on his presentation,

and I thought that I had
something different to bring,

not just as a woman, but
just an overall person.

I felt like I represented the
district a little bit better.

And while it wasn't
commonly done

to run against someone
of your own party,

I decided to do it
anyway because I truly

felt that I could do a
better job of expressing

our joint political views.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Thank you.

Thank you, Joyce.

Immediately to the
right of representative

Peppin is Senator Sandy Pappas.

Senator Sandy Pappas,
Democrat from St. Paul.

And I will get the
district right this time

because I'll look.

65.

District 65 of St. Paul.

Elected in 1990.

So served some 24, 5 years
in the Minnesota Senate.

She's been very well known
in the higher education

community, as she was chair of
higher education for many years.

And now as president
of the Senate,

is no longer the chair of the
Higher Education Committee.

But Senator Pappas
holds degrees,

I think, from JFK, John Kennedy
School, as well as Harvard.

SANDY PAPPAS: Steve, it's
the JFK School at Harvard.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Oh,
it's at Harvard?

SANDY PAPPAS: Yes.

JOYCE PEPPIN: OK.

SANDY PAPPAS: Yes.

STEVE SVIGGUM: This
is interesting.

SANDY PAPPAS: Great.

Thank you so much.

And thank you for
inviting me to be here

with this esteemed panel.

I'm very pleased to be here.

And my story ends similar
to Joyce's, but begins

quite differently as I'm
quite a bit older than her.

I feel like my path
to public service

really involves movements
for social justice.

Some people are really
influenced by individuals,

and I was influenced by
movements and ideals.

So I was first inspired
by John F. Kennedy.

I go way back with his famous,
"ask not what your country can

do for you, but what you
can do for your country."

And I'm repeating that because
some of the younger generation

may not have heard that before.

But I also was very influenced
by the Civil Rights Movement

by Doctor Martin Luther King.

And of course, we have the
events and marches recreation

going on in Selma right now.

I was especially influenced by
the anti-Vietnam war movement

as I graduated from high school,
and a lot of my male high school

classmates were being drafted if
they weren't going to college.

The environmental
movement picked up speed

in the '60s and the '70s.

I became a very strong
environmentalist.

I still eat organically.

Then, of course,
the women's movement

during those same years, I
was very influenced by that.

Then there was a whole movement
on communities-- community

strength, community support, and
social action at the community

level.

And then finally, I have to
say that women need to be asked

a lot to run for politics.

And so how I ended up being
kind of pushed into politics,

I'd been involved with
local political politics

and the Democratic
Farmer Labor Party,

as well as in my community, but
my husband one day said to me,

you just got laid off from
your job and you're pregnant

and you have two
toddlers at home, which

means you have nothing to do.

[LAUGHTER]

Thank you for laughing.

So why don't you run
for the legislature?

And silly me, I did.

So I did my first
trial run in '82.

And like Joyce Peppin, the
Republican Majority Leader,

I also ran against an
incumbent in my own party.

And sometimes that's how
you have to-- you have

to be competitive,
and sometimes that's

what you have to do in order
to break in into politics,

especially as women.

So there we go.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Thank
you, Senator Pappas.

Senator Benson.

And to follow through on what
Senator Pappas was speaking,

a lot of this is going to be
aimed today at young women.

And we have two of
them that I just

met in the audience today,
Anika and Jule, correct?

And we'd like to encourage
them and hundreds of others

like them to run for
office in the future.

So, Senator Benson,
that's our purpose here,

is to get Anika to run for
office, although she told me

she's already in that path.

I think it's already
predetermined maybe.

MICHELLE BENSON: Speaker
Sviggum, I would not necessarily

encourage her to run.

I'd encourage her to get really
strong and good at what she does

and good at what
she believes in.

And when the opportunity
presents itself,

then she'll be ready.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Thank you.

Very wise.

Senator Michelle Benson
is from district 31.

She holds an MBA from
ST. Thomas college,

and has been chosen in
the minority in the Senate

to be one of their
assistant minority leaders.

Senator Benson.

MICHELLE BENSON: And
thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Why did I end up here?

Car trips with my parents
when I was little.

We took long car rides
all over this nation.

And my parents truly
love this country.

And those long car rides
meant long conversations

about our country's history and
what our family believed in.

And that sits in me very deeply.

My dad was a farmer.

Actually, my mom and
dad were farmers.

Dad did most of the farming.

Taught me economics in
a very practical way.

When it rained in Illinois
and it was dry in Minnesota,

it wasn't good for corn prices.

My mom was one of the few
Republicans in Swift County,

spent a lot of hours
calling delegates,

trying to get people
to come to caucus.

One of my early political
responsibilities

was putting up signs
for Senator Durenberger.

[LAUGHTER] Absolutely.

I am a child of the '80s, which
is very similar to what Senator

Pappas had talked about how the
influence of when you grow up

helps to form you.

And Ronald Reagan
was our president,

and it felt like America
was on top of the world.

And I think we're seeing a
strong generation of women

formed by that stepping forward.

And I have a feeling we
will see a strong generation

of young women formed by the
presidency of Barack Obama,

as he has been
transformative as well.

When it came to actually
running for office,

it was the Affordable Care Act.

I was so frustrated by the
fact that no one in Washington

seemed to have read it, or
understood the basic economics

of that act and what it
would do to individuals

and their families.

Some would say do for
individuals in their families,

but the fact that nobody
took that policy change

and studied it so
in-depthly that they

could see the trouble that might
come and mitigate that trouble

really motivated me.

And like representative
Peppin and Senator Pappas,

I took on an incumbent
Republican and won.

So that is how I ended up here.

I am very pleased to
be before you today.

And I hope we encourage
more young women

to get engaged in
politics at all levels.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Sounds like
incumbents are in trouble.

[LAUGHTER] If they find
a lady in their own party

that wants to challenge
them, they're in trouble.

Thank you, Senator Benson.

And to Majority Leader or former
Majority Leader Erin Murphy from

St. Paul, district 64A.

ERIN MURPHY: The mighty 64.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Mighty 64.

Representative Murphy was first
elected in 2006, I believe.

Holds degrees from--

I don't know if
we say that here--

at the University of Wisconsin.

Is it--

ERIN MURPHY: In Oshkosh.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Oh, in Oshkosh.

That's probably better.

Probably better
than Madison anyway.

And from the College
of St. Catherine.

Former Majority Leader of
the Democratic, now minority,

Erin Murphy.

ERIN MURPHY: Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.

And I am really thrilled
to be here today

and to talk about this issue.

I have to say at the
start that I continue

to feel very optimistic
about our future

and about our
politics in Minnesota,

and it is the thing that
fuels me every cycle.

And for whatever reason,
I am a [INAUDIBLE] water,

but I do love politics.

And I grew up in a big
Irish Catholic family.

And when I would go to my
grandmother's house, whose

maiden name was
Kennedy, my aunts

and uncles and grandparents and
my parents would play cards,

they'd play Euchre.

And all my cousins--
and I have a lot

of cousins-- they
would go out and play

in Columbus, Wisconsin, the
small town where I was born,

and I would stay
inside with the adults

and pull up a stool at
the corner of the table.

And if I mix their drinks,
which I got good at,

I could stay while
they played cards

and they talked about politics.

They weren't necessarily
political practitioners,

but they talked about
politics, and they

taught me the power
and the opportunity

that we have to shape
our communities using

this tool of our politics.

And I think it's really
important in a democracy

to do that.

So I worked on a campaign
when I was in eighth grade

for a candidate who was
running for the state Senate.

His daughter was my classmate.

We put bumper stickers on
cars in mall parking lots

without asking.

You shouldn't do that.

But he won anyhow, despite
our efforts, and I was hooked.

And I went to school at Oshkosh
to get my degree in nursing,

but knew really
early in my career

that I wanted to find the
intersection between health care

and policy and politics, and
did when I moved to Minnesota.

I worked at the University
of Minnesota Hospital

as a surgical nurse, but got
involved in local politics when

I lived in St.
Paul, when I moved

to St. Paul and
the Groveland area,

and have been plugging
away ever since.

Never intending
to run for office.

Just was never on my radar.

I'm a nervous public speaker.

And I got frustrated
about health care.

I got frustrated that it felt
like we were in a no-go action

here, and more and
more people were

finding themselves uninsured.

Their costs were going
higher and higher.

And after lots and lots of years
of working on health policy,

I finally had enough
courage to say out loud,

I know something about this.

I have been working on
this for a long time

and so decided to run.

And while I did not
challenge the incumbent,

I was in an open
seat, there were

nine people that
expressed interest in,

five that went to a
convention, and one

who had been running
for about two years.

And everybody thought
that that individual,

that he was unbeatable.

And I beat him anyhow.

SANDY PAPPAS: Yay.

ERIN MURPHY: And
I have been just

delighted with the
opportunity to serve.

Minnesotans are wonderful,
practical people

with a lot to say
about where we live

and a lot of hope
about our future,

and they just want
us to do a good job.

And I am doing my
best to do that

and to help propel
us forward, and I'm

thrilled to be here today.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Representative
Erin Murphy from St. Paul.

I find it interesting, not only
have you challenged incumbents,

but Senator Benson and
representative Murphy

were both motivated by
the health care issue.

Let me guess.

It might have been
from different angles

from opposite sides of
the health care reform.

ERIN MURPHY: That's right.

STEVE SVIGGUM: But it
motivated you nonetheless.

In preparation for this today,
I did some minimal background

research.

I do minimal research.

They always would put
things on a page for me

in the right choice.

You were on staff.

You had a [INAUDIBLE] right?

You had to put it
in a page or two.

So I called our association,
our National Conference

of State Legislators,
NCSL, it is called,

and asked them if they'd
done any studies on women

in leadership, women running
for office, what women

bring to leadership positions.

They'd done a host of studies
and they sent me these studies.

Now, in all honesty, I didn't
necessarily read the study.

I read the report of
this study that seemed

to be the wise thing to do.

I would read the reports.

And it's funny how these
studies they sent me--

I think it was seven.

I might have-- six or seven.

How they didn't come to any
agreement in the studies.

They would talk about
women being more persuasive

than their male counterparts.

And then another study would
say, well, not necessarily so.

About less likely to reject
information and opinions that

come from the other party.

And another study said,
well, not necessarily so.

They talk about women being
better able to compromise

and cooperate, maybe a
little less confrontational,

a little less rigid ideology.

Women are able to demonstrate
in-team building and your team

building, which you're doing
in your caucuses right now.

A little bit more inclusive
team building leadership style

than their male
counterparts have.

And in these studies,
one of them said--

actually, two of
them said that women

are more willing to take risks
than men are in the legislature.

I think in my 29 years of the
legislature, I think I saw that.

I think I saw that they were
more willing to take risks

and maybe than men were.

But since there was no agreement
on women in leadership,

I thought we'd go back and start
with first running for office,

then serving, then leadership.

And in running for
office, maybe a

take-home for all of
you, a little trivia.

A little trivia.

Let's see how good our four
guests are here in front.

Trivia, women's suffrage.

The 19th Amendment passed--

I got to do the research.

You didn't.

Passed in 19 and 20.

How many states-- we got
this thing working, right?

How many states, ladies?

The first one to give me a hand.

How many states did it take
to ratify the Constitution?

MICHELLE BENSON: 34.

STEVE SVIGGUM: 34 is wrong.

Senator Bentsen is wrong.

JOYCE PEPPIN: 36.

STEVE SVIGGUM: 36 is correct.

36.

It takes 3/4 of the states,
Senator Durenberger,

as you know, to ratify
the Constitution.

And at that time,
Hawaii and Alaska

were not members of the Union.

So rather than 38.

So Representative Peppin gets
the check over Senator Benson.

The houses ahead one to zero.

I like that, by the way.

That's a good thing.

I fully expect that the
House will win the contest.

OK.

Second question.

First women in Minnesota
ran and were elected in 19--

SANDY PAPPAS: 22.

There were four women elected.

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

Now it's one for the
house, one for the Senate.

That was Senator Pappas,
a Democrat from St. Paul.

So now it's a 1-1 tie
as we go forward here.

Name me the six-- how
many of the six states--

there's six states where
more than one third

of their legislature are women.

More than one third.

Can you give me any of the six?

JOYCE PEPPIN: Wyoming.

STEVE SVIGGUM: No.

SANDY PAPPAS: I
have some of them.

Arizona.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Arizona.

SANDY PAPPAS: Vermont.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Vermont.

SANDY PAPPAS: Colorado.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Yeah.

Three.

SANDY PAPPAS: And then
Minnesota is fourth.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Fourth.

SANDY PAPPAS: I don't know
who the other two are.

Let's guess.

ERIN MURPHY: California.

STEVE SVIGGUM: No.

We got four.

This is going to have to
go the Senate way again.

Nevada.

SANDY PAPPAS: Nevada.

STEVE SVIGGUM: And Washington.

SANDY PAPPAS: Washington.

STEVE SVIGGUM: The
state of Washington.

More than one third of their
legislature-- one third or more

are women in those states.

How about this one--

first woman from Minnesota to
be in the US Congress was--

JOYCE PEPPIN: Coya Knutson.

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

I think Representative
Peppin got in first.

I'm with the house.

JOYCE PEPPIN: I've
been to her house.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Oh,
you've been to our house.

JOYCE PEPPIN: I've
been to her house.

STEVE SVIGGUM: You
been to Coya's house?

JOYCE PEPPIN: Yeah.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Up in
Northwestern Minnesota,

I believe, right?

And the toss up question.

SANDY PAPPAS: I actually
met her before she died.

STEVE SVIGGUM: What-- [LAUGHTER]

SANDY PAPPAS: [INAUDIBLE]

STEVE SVIGGUM: I told you we
would laugh here a little bit.

We'd entertain a little bit.

Now, real quickly, in
Coya Knutson's two years--

actually, two terms.

She served four years.

What was the phrase that--

ERIN MURPHY: Coya Come Home.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Coya Come Home.

SANDY PAPPAS: She didn't
even finish the sentence.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Yeah.

But if she hadn't got it,
you'd have been able to steal.

ERIN MURPHY: My mom--

my mom's maiden
name was Knutson.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Coya Come Home.

My what?

ERIN MURPHY: My mom's
maiden name was Knutson.

STEVE SVIGGUM:
Oh, is that right?

OK.

So you had a little
advantage there.

OK.

Coya Knutson, come home.

And very interesting enough, it
was a letter, Coya Come Home,

signed by her husband.

But not necessarily
was it written by him,

from what we understand.

We think it was written
by her political opponents

and probably her Democratic
political opponents.

Her own party is what
I'm going to say.

So audience, I think I'm going
to judge it 3 for the house, two

for the Senate.

SANDY PAPPAS: You know,
Steve, I just wanted to say,

since this is a University
audience, that Coya was actually

known for her authorship of
financial aid for students.

So when we talk in a little
while about the things

that women work on and
that they focus on,

we certainly have a great
example from Coya Knutson.

STEVE SVIGGUM: You bet.

You bet she was.

She was.

She was a real leader that
challenged the institution

originally, because I think
she went on a primary.

I don't think she was endorsed.

And then, of course, her
party took her on a little bit

later on.

OK.

So let's go to, now that we've
got the trivia done, running

for office.

Representative Murphy, you've
been out on the campaign trail

recruiting people to run for
office as Majority Leader.

That was part of
your responsibility.

It's part of Republican
Majority Leader Joyce Peppin's

responsibility.

Now, how hard is it to get
women to run for office?

ERIN MURPHY: It is harder to
get women to run for office

than it is to get men
to run for office.

Absolutely.

And we have--

STEVE SVIGGUM: What
are the barriers?

Talk to me about the barriers.

And then, Joyce, I'm
going to turn to you.

ERIN MURPHY: But part of
it is our own perspective

on ourselves, and that we
don't know that we're prepared.

Often when a woman
is asked, especially

the first or second
time, they will say,

well, I'm not ready
to do that yet.

I need to study.

Maybe I should run for city
council, or school board,

or a board, or a
commission, et cetera.

So I need to do these
things to get ready,

rather than recognizing that
our life experience is often

what prepares us best
for running for office.

The statistics
show us that women

have to be asked
seven or eight times

before they actually
agree to run for office.

But things like the
somewhat corrosive nature

or the perceived corrosive
nature of our political debate,

especially in the
campaign season,

is something that women
cite as a reason they're not

sure they want to do that,
and to enter into that fray

or enter into that
with their family

or on behalf of their family.

The other thing that women
will often talk about

is how this fits in with the
work, or their view of what

they are responsible
for within their family.

And those are real
considerations.

The work of the
legislature is demanding.

It is demanding both during
session and outside of session,

if you want to be
good at the job.

And it is a challenge,
I think, for all of us,

men and women to balance
life and family and this job.

And so will often hear,
I'm not ready yet,

I'm not sure I
want to put myself

or my family through that.

It is so ugly
sometimes, and I'm not

sure this is the right time for
me and my family and my career.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Certainly
there are some barriers there.

I ran into them when I was
out in the field as well.

Probably even more so
in greater Minnesota,

I found, than in the
Metropolitan area.

Representative Peppin,
Republican Majority Leader from

Rogers, you're--

probably recruited candidates
already and looking at it,

what have you found?

JOYCE PEPPIN:
Well, I often think

of-- there's a phrase,
a little saying,

and I don't remember
the exact words,

but it's basically it's a lot
easier to get things done if you

don't care who gets the credit.

And I think that
that's something

that women tend to
really think about more.

And what I mean by that
is when you approach

women or women approach you
about talking about an issue,

they think about things in
terms of fixing the problem

or not being happy
with the situation

and trying to find a
solution to the problem

and they don't necessarily
identify themselves

with the person who's
going to fix the problem as

readily as men are.

It seems like men
frequently, when

they have an issue that
they are interested in are

concerned about, they are more
willing to say, I'm going to go

and I'm going to fix the
problem, whereas women

still want to get
the problem fixed,

but don't necessarily
think that--

that don't necessarily consider
that the person in the mirror

is the one, is the best person
to go and fix the problem.

So I would say it is, as
representative Murphy said,

it is harder to get
women to run for office,

but that's a mistake
because oftentimes they have

an awful lot to add to the mix.

And we're doing pretty
well in Minnesota,

but I think that the
legislature is a lot different

because there are women
of both parties involved.

I think it does bring a
lot more civility and just

a different atmosphere
overall to the legislature.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Senator Pappas,
you have three daughters,

I believe, and now,
unfortunately, they're

not in Minnesota right now.

I believe they're-- they're
probably not even in the United

States of America right now.

But at the supper table,
when they were growing,

did you talk politics with them?

Did you talk running for office?

Did you speak about any
of those things that might

encourage a young lady to run?

SANDY PAPPAS: I think
my daughters lived

it more than talked about
it because they certainly

were on the floor of the--

I was in the house
for six years.

They were on the floor with
me during opening days.

One of my daughters
did the page program.

They certainly heard
from their classmates

who didn't believe that
their mother was actually

a state Senator.

Come on, really?

They were on the
campaign trail with me.

When there were articles
written about me

or there was criticism of me,
they were very much aware of it.

The time I got a speeding ticket
going to my precinct caucus,

they knew about it at
school the next day.

So be careful.

So it was something
that we talked about.

But this whole issue of women,
as representative Murphy said,

we don't have enough
women in the pipeline who

are thinking about it, who are
planning ahead because women are

more motivated, as
representative Peppin said,

by an issue unless as
this is a career path.

Now, I see younger women really
thinking more about politics

as being a career path, but
that's really been a change.

Women always feel like they have
to prove themselves so much.

And there's this
saying that remember

that Ginger Rogers
did everything

that Fred Astaire did--

I'm dating myself-- but
in high heels, backwards.

So she danced as well as him,
but in high heels and backwards.

And there is a sense that women
have to know twice as much

for people to consider that
they're half as good as men.

So that's definitely a barrier.

I think that's changing now.

I think, and it
has over my career,

that women are perceived as
being more hardworking and more

honest.

But we still have a
barrier, I would say,

in even asking for money is
that it's easier for women

to ask for money
for other people

than it is for themselves.

You have to really say
it's for the Pappas team,

not just for Sandy Pappas
as you ask for money.

It's a bigger picture and kind
of convince yourself of that.

And then I also
think it's difficult

because the legislature and
politics is often not very

family friendly,
and that women still

are bearing the majority
of family responsibilities.

And so if you have--

for rural Minnesota to
come down to the metro area

and be away from their family,
like Jen Schultz from Duluth

is doing, she still has young
kids, can be very difficult,

and you have to have a lot of
spousal support when you do it.

I was lucky being in St. Paul,
that I could maybe get away

from my committee or my
responsibilities for an hour

to go to my daughter's swim
team match or gymnastics team

match at Central High
School because it's

just down the street.

But for a lot of women,
it's very important for them

to be there for their
kids and for their family.

And the legislature,
in the old days,

you never knew when
you'd be done at night.

You never knew if you'd have
to work on a Saturday or not.

And if women had-- if their
husbands traveled and they had

to get childcare,
that could be--

I remember Donna
Peterson telling me

that it was such
a problem for her.

And she worked for the
University for many years, left

the legislature for hopefully a
more family friendly environment

here so that she would know
in advance if she needed

to be at the legislature.

So it's difficult
terrain for women.

STEVE SVIGGUM: All four of you
are good role models for Anika

and many other young ladies, but
we're talking about that family

barrier.

Senator Benson, you really
live that right now.

How old is your--

MICHELLE BENSON: She had
a baby during the session.

STEVE SVIGGUM: How old
is your youngest child?

MICHELLE BENSON: She
will be 4, March 18th.

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

You were pregnant when
you ran for office?

MICHELLE BENSON: Yes.

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

Tell us about it.

Tell us about the bear.

MICHELLE BENSON: Well,
I was very fortunate.

When I was a freshman,
I had my daughter

and they gave me the choice, you
can have an intern or a nursery.

And again, we talk about
the importance of support.

My mom, again, calling delegates
and all of those things,

the biggest support
she gave me is

that when my daughter was
born, I went back to work

three days after I had her.

And I could do that because
my mom could come and hold her

and I could go in and take care
of my daughter when I needed to.

And it's not that my committee
chairs accommodated me,

but they understood
that I was going

to be getting up and
leaving once in a while

to take care of things.

But this has changed my
family, the understanding

of public service.

My son today is at the
Senate and the House,

lobbying for the YMCA and the
youth and government program.

And he's leading people around.

He said, oh, well,
we'll just go this way,

and we're going to have
lunch at the rathskeller.

And my children have a very
different understanding

of mom's work.

My daughter, four
years old, says,

are you going to
work at my Capitol?

STEVE SVIGGUM:
Well, I'm glad she

thinks that it is her Capitol.

MICHELLE BENSON: Capitol, yes.

And she's very concerned.

She asked why it
was all wrapped,

and I said, well, there were
chunks falling off the building.

Are they fixing the chunks?

So she is absolutely
blessed to have grown up.

She's kind of a bonus.

I shouldn't say this.

She's probably the only person
without an election certificate

who's ever been snuck
into the retiring room.

So I shouldn't say that
in front of my president,

but she was quite tiny
when that happened.

It is hard on families,
and families have

to decide if it's worth it.

And our family has
decided that it

is worth the sacrifice
and the juggling

and the privilege of being able
to say, this is my Capitol.

There are probably not a
lot of kids in Minnesota

who feel that attached to our
government and the way things

work, and they will have
a different understanding

as they go forward.

And I find that with
teenagers at home,

it is really broken
down the barriers

because my boys' friends don't
think of me as a Senator,

and then all of a sudden
they'll realize what I do.

And I think it will
help them going forward

to realize that very normal
people go to St. Paul

and make these decisions,
and very normal people

go to Washington to
make these decisions,

and they will make
good decisions

and they will make bad decisions
because they are normal people.

And so what you see in
the news, what I've found

is that the kids, when you talk
to them about what they see

in the news and you
tell them what's

going on behind the scenes, it
helps take away the bitterness

that can happen in politics.

And they understand that that's
not how the work gets done.

That's just a
conversation and the work

is getting done somewhere
completely differently.

And I think that will
make my children's friends

different because
of my experience.

STEVE SVIGGUM:
Serving and leading.

Senator Pappas, the president,
Democratic President

of the Minnesota Senate,
serving and leading.

Tell me, do you see in women--

you're obviously a leader,
the others in the front are.

Do you see women as being more
compromising and cooperative?

Do you see them as being
more persuasive, better

at building their team,
more passionate on issues?

Do you see any of those things?

Any difference between your
male counterparts and women

in leadership?

SANDY PAPPAS: Steve, I
definitely see women in really

their-- more of their
ability to look ahead

beyond the next election cycle.

And where this became
so obvious to me

is when Senator Jane
Ranum, who I believe

is a judge now in Hennepin
County, when she was first

elected, she came in
really with a passion

that we really are sending
too many people to prison

and spending too much money
even on that, that we really

need to focus upstream
to prevention activities.

And she came up with
this very innovative idea

that for every new dollar we
put into the prison system,

we should have a matching dollar
that goes into prevention.

And that lasted.

It didn't last forever, but
it lasted for quite a while.

And it actually
meant that Minnesota

has the second
lowest incarceration

rate in the country.

And unlike that huge prison
craze that hit a lot of states,

we didn't go through that
to such a great extent.

And we did really look upstream
at how we could prevent that.

So I think you see women
looking at where attention's not

being paid, whether it's
kind of an unmet need.

That really hit me
about a decade ago

when I saw human sex
trafficking as an issue.

And it's actually a
very bipartisan issue,

but you have a lot of women
taking leadership in that area,

that this is a-- no one's paying
attention to this problem,

and that these girls are
victims and they become victims

at very young age.

The average age of entrance
into prostitution is 13.

It's not a choice.

It's not a lifestyle choice.

A lot of support for
daycare, for working moms

I see from women.

And then your question
about cooperation.

I mean, Joyce and I have
been roommates in the past.

That we do--

Senator Karla Nelson and
I, Republican senator,

are working together on
Alzheimer's research.

I think you do see an
attempt to work cooperatively

to solve problems.

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

Well, Majority Leader Peppin,
let's take off on that.

Let's say serving and
leading-- and Senator Pappas

has spoken very,
very well to it.

Politicians, they say,
look to the next election.

Stateswomen look to
the next generation.

Do you agree?

JOYCE PEPPIN: I do
agree, Mr. Speaker.

I think one of the
observations I've

made about women
of both parties is

that they do have a real
willingness to talk to others

and to listen to
others, perhaps,

maybe just a little less
dogmatically, because again,

as the saying that
I mentioned earlier,

I think women are less
concerned about getting credit

for something happening.

They want to find solutions.

Senator Pappas said
that sex trafficking was

an important issue,
and so she's not

concerned about getting
credit for that,

she's concerned about
fixing the problem.

Not that men aren't.

Not that male
legislators aren't.

I just think that women have a
little different way of looking

at things, and part of it is
from their family perspective

and thinking about things from
how their family would view

it or how their daughters--

I have two daughters.

I always think about things--

would I want my daughter to see
me saying this or doing this?

And I just think
that we just bring

a different type of temperament
and personality to things.

I don't think it means
we're more compromising in

that we're not going to
stand up for the values

that we believe
in, but I think it

means that we're more
willing to listen to people

and listen to their
perspective than it might

happen if we weren't there.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Representative
Murphy, you assist in--

or you were the Majority Leader.

ERIN MURPHY: I was.

STEVE SVIGGUM: You had a speaker
by the name of Paul Thiessen.

When you went to
your caucus, did you

sense yourself being
more willing to listen,

more willing to cooperate,
more willing to find

a answer than your speaker?

ERIN MURPHY: One--

STEVE SVIGGUM: Maybe you
don't want to answer that.

ERIN MURPHY: I want to
say a couple of things.

First, I find when I think
about our caucus, some gender

difference.

And this isn't necessarily
about Speaker Thiessen

but just in general.

Our ability at the
end of a session

to complete our work
really does rely upon our--

communication with one another,
not just across party lines,

but within our caucus.

And when you have 72
people who are each

elected in their own right
and different perspectives

and a lot of new people--

and one of the best things
about recruiting candidates

is helping them get elected and
then feeling a part of something

together, right?

So we had all these new
members that came in 2012.

We have to be intentional about
that work that we do together.

I bet you would recognize
this from your tenure

as a leader in the legislature.

And this is where I see a
gender difference, where

I will see more
likely men will say,

we don't have anything we need
to get together for to caucus

to discuss so let's not meet.

And I think it is
really important for us

as we move our way through
this legislative session,

that we are working our way
through this together because it

builds our narrative, it
builds our understanding

of what it is that we're
trying to accomplish,

whether we're in the
minority or the majority.

And it brings us
together not only

in terms of what we're
thinking and saying

inside the legislature
and to Minnesotans,

but also it brings us together
as a more cohesive group.

And especially when we
head into elections,

and elections are getting
harder in Minnesota,

that sense of us
together going out

to work on behalf of Minnesotans
is a point of strength for us.

So that's been something that I
have noticed in my eight years,

is that there's a difference
there in terms of gender

and the way we spend our time
and that encouraging the heart,

right?

There is a part of
leadership that I understand,

which is about encouraging
the leadership of others.

As Joyce says, it's not so
much about getting credit.

You want everyone to succeed.

And one of the elements of
my leadership is about that,

and that is often
seen as a soft skill

or sometimes as a woman
skill and not a strong skill.

I think it's a strong skill.

The other place that I have
noticed some differences

in the negotiations,
and we've all

participated in some form
or another of negotiations,

I was an executive director
for the nurses union

before I was elected.

And there was a negotiation
that happened there.

And I see those same tactics.

And I will say
without naming people,

that it is way more
likely to see a man who's

in leadership at
some point get up,

yell, and storm out of
the room than I have seen

women in my tenure do that.

And we all execute our
leadership in different ways,

but there is--

I was really struck, especially
in my last few years,

by the difference there,
and how unusual it

was for that behavior to
be expressed by a woman.

And there have been
times when I have

been in sharp disagreement with
a woman, someone in the Senate,

for instance, who is a Democrat.

And we've had our disagreement,
a sharp disagreement

about a position,
but it hasn't ever

gotten to that place where we
have stormed out on one another.

And at the end--

STEVE SVIGGUM: You never
played the good cop, bad cop?

When I did that, Tim
Pawlenty was the good cop.

I always had to be the bad cop.

ERIN MURPHY: I get the
good cop, bad cop thing.

I do.

But there is I think
just a little less heat

expressed coming from
the women, understanding

that at the end of
the day, we've got

to find a compromise together.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Senator
Benson, Representative Murphy

speaks about the importance of
communication and communication

skills and communication being
maybe more important to women

in leadership than men.

Possibly, at least in
certain situations.

Do you agree?

Do you think communication as a
woman trait it's an advantage?

MICHELLE BENSON: I
would tend to agree.

I think women verbally
process things more.

And talking to Representative
Murphy's point,

sometimes just meeting to talk
through an issue that might not

be pressing helps you prepare
as a team, helps you understand

where everybody is at,
make sure that people

feel heard and connected.

I think that's really important
because when you get to the end,

when you're in the
crucible and somebody

has to take a hard
vote, you want trust

built in that organization.

And I mean this for a caucus,
I mean this for a party,

and I mean this
for an institution

like the legislature.

And frankly, by talking through
difficult things early on,

you can hear the
word that you might

need to clearly
communicates your message,

or you'll see that spark
of a new idea that hasn't

been brought forward yet.

And I talk about
the legislature.

I have an undergraduate
degree in chemistry,

so if I do a nerd thing,
please forgive me,

but you grow crystals in a
supersaturated environment.

The legislature is
always supersaturated.

And when you get that seed
crystal of a good idea,

you have to have
an environment that

lets that grow and people
being connected and trusting

and understanding each other.

You don't always have
to agree, but you

have to know where the
person is coming from,

and you have to have trust
with them that they're

acting from where they
are not to hurt you,

but because they believe
in what they believe.

And I think that's why
the communication matters.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Here's-- I
thought we would really put

these four ladies on the spot.

I woke up, I think it
was yesterday, Tuesday.

So it must have been Saturday
night, and I looked at my wife

and I said, Debbie, I
got an idea what we're

going to do with this form.

I said, we are going
to take the four women

leadership because we're going
to talk about communication.

We're going to talk
about compromise.

We're going to talk
about getting together.

We're going to talk about
all those good things.

And we're going to
take those four ladies,

and we're going to take four
big problems or one big problem,

the $1.9 billion surplus, and
have a live laboratory right

here and see if the
four of them can solve

the problem in 30 minutes.

[LAUGHTER] Joyce,
what do you think?

JOYCE PEPPIN: As long as
everyone listens to my ideas.

SANDY PAPPAS: Are you sure
you don't want questions

from the audience, Steve?

STEVE SVIGGUM: And
then I was going on.

Debbie, I said, we can
do it on the budget,

we can do it on LIFO, we can
do it on childcare increases

or whatever.

And she said that wasn't a very
good idea because she knows you

as well as I do, so it probably
wasn't the right idea to do.

First question from the
audience, if you would.

And Senator Pappas,
Democratic President

of the Minnesota Senate.

We're all concerned, all of us.

We issued the words polarization
in today's politics.

None of us are for it.

All of us create it,
to some degree anyway.

Would you say that there we
would have less polarization

along partisan lines if we had
a greater participation by women

in the legislature, in Congress?

Would there be less
polarization or not?

SANDY PAPPAS: Excuse me.

Well, Steve, I think
you do have an example.

I think it was
during the shutdown

where a group of women
senators got together

with their proposal
in Congress about how

to reopen government
or avoid the shutdown.

I don't remember
the whole story,

but there have been examples
where that's happened.

So I do think that if women
can agree on what our goals are

and what our dreams are, then
it's-- and I think we have a lot

of similarities in what we want.

We want, as President
Murphy said, a brighter

future for our
state, that if you

agree that these
are our goals, then

I think you have
then some reason

to discuss how do we get there,
and then how do we help our--

how do we intersect those paths?

And I do think, as
President Peppin mentioned,

if women are more willing to
listen to the other person's

goals and think about how then
we can find a path together,

I do think that's very possible.

I mean, I don't think it
happens with all women,

and I think there are some men
who also can approach problem

solving in that
way, but I do think

we are more willing
because we do

have to listen to those
children, those teenagers.

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

Representative Peppin, the
Republican Majority Leader,

would women bring
less polarization

to our political process?

JOYCE PEPPIN: Well,
Mr. Speaker, I

think it's hard to make
broad generalizations.

I mean, everybody is different.

All 201 of us in
the legislature have

very, very different
personalities and very strong

personalities, so I think
it's hard to specifically make

broad generalizations.

But I do think that--

as we talked about
before, I do think

that a lot of the
women that I serve with

tend to check their
egos at the door.

They're more willing to
check their egos at the door

and aren't so dug
in on their position

that they're not willing
to listen to anyone else.

So from that
perspective, I think

that it is possible that there
would be less polarization.

But again, there's
many men that I

work with that are willing to
listen and compromise and use

those skills.

And certainly there are some
women that are very polarizing.

So it's hard to make a
complete judgment call on that.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Joyce,
who's going to be

the good cop and the bad cop?

You or Kurt?

JOYCE PEPPIN: What
would you guess?

STEVE SVIGGUM: I guess
you're the bad cop

and he's the good cop.

[LAUGHTER] Would I be right?

JOYCE PEPPIN: I won't
comment on that.

STEVE SVIGGUM: I
trained you that way.

No, I did not train you
at all, as you know.

Representative Murphy, the
Democratic Majority Leader

of the last couple
of years, you said

the job is very demanding,
which it is obviously, both

during session and even
when we're not in session,

if you want to be good
at the job and do good.

What constitutes
a job well done?

Give us the parameters.

Give us what you think
is a job well done.

How is it measured?

ERIN MURPHY: I have
strong feelings about this

because having now served for
four terms and looking ahead,

as we talked about,
beyond the next election,

but at our future,
it seems clear to me

that we have a number of
challenging issues before us--

an aging population,
an achievement gap,

a changing economy, a big state,
people living all over the place

but sparsely in some places
of the state of Minnesota.

Those are issues that drive a
lot of our politics right now,

but they also
influence our budget.

And I think that we need to
wrestle with those issues.

And I think the
legislature should

come in prepared to make
decisions on some of those

tough issues.

And when we don't, I like
we're letting Minnesotans down.

And sometimes our
politics yield a result

that is less than successful
from my point of view.

And there are a
number of things that

drove the budget of the last
10 years, and some of it

is the recession, some of
it is these tough issues,

and some of it is our politics,
especially around whether or not

we tax and fund our budget.

And so I think especially
during the recession--

and when I think
about the Congress,

when I think about immigration
and the future of our country,

I want people to go
into the legislature

willing to take the risk
and make the hard decisions

propelling our future.

And when we don't, I think
we're letting Minnesotans down.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Very good.

Senator Benson, I've seen
your campaign brochures,

and you have your family
in your campaign brochures

more than once.

And I would too,
seeing your family.

Yeah.

You run on family
being an important part

of our fabric of society.

If a woman who is
not family orientated

wants to run for office,
how successful will they

be in Minnesota election?

Is it more-- is that a barrier?

Does a woman have to have
family on the front page?

MICHELLE BENSON: No.

Speaker, Mr. Speaker,
I put my family

the same way I put my
education, credentials

or bills that I have passed
because it is part of who I am.

And if you're going to go to
someone's door, knock on it

and say, this is who I
am, please vote for me,

they should know who you are and
why they should vote for you.

And we have had some very
successful young women--

Abigail Whelan graduated here
from the Humphrey School.

She ran the last
election and won.

She does not have a
family, but she has skills

and she is hardworking and
she is bright and capable.

And I don't think
people expect a woman

to have a family any
more than they expect

a man to have a
family, but I think

they should know who you are and
what influences your decisions

and that, I think,
is the difference.

And I wouldn't guess
a Minnesotan would

look at a picture
of a woman and say,

huh, I wonder why
she's not married.

I just don't see people
thinking that way.

SANDY PAPPAS: Steve, I would
like to say, though, if I may,

if I'm advising a candidate,
she does have a family.

She has parents,
she has siblings,

she has nieces and nephews.

And I'm thinking
of a single woman

I know of who has been very
successful in politics,

but she would include
her family picture,

because yes, it is
true that people

do want to identify
with you and they

want to see you in the
context of a family,

but it doesn't have to be
a husband and children.

MICHELLE BENSON: That's fair.

STEVE SVIGGUM: In the
private sector, as well as

in many public
sector jobs, women

have struggled
throughout their careers

to get the respect,
the equity, pay equity,

the equity from their
male counterparts.

Joyce, Republican Majority
Leader from Rogers,

have you sensed that in
the legislature itself

that you have
struggled, that you

have been shunned at
the door or anything

amongst your male
counterparts in trying

to obtain the fairness,
respect, the equity, which

you should have?

Your certificate is just as good
as the guy sitting next to you,

right?

JOYCE PEPPIN: Yeah.

And I think I have--
and I wouldn't

be Majority Leader
if it wouldn't

have been for a lot of men
in the caucus voting for me.

And so I don't
necessarily feel that way.

I think that it's different.

As you pointed out, I was
staff in the Minnesota House

of Representatives when I was
in the '90s, and I do feel that

it's a lot different than--
and I feel that women in all

of our caucuses are thought
highly of generally.

I don't think that we're
thought of as less capable.

And some of the women are
extremely intelligent, well

educated.

And so I really haven't
felt it that much.

I feel like our
male counterparts

understand that women
bring a lot to the table.

They all have-- most of them
have families themselves,

or if not, mothers,
grandmothers.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Well, let
me move from the house

to the good old boys Senate.

SANDY PAPPAS: Well, Steve, I--

STEVE SVIGGUM: So
Representative--

or senator-- excuse
me, Senator Pappas,

have you ever felt
that attitude?

SANDY PAPPAS: Well,
Mr. Speaker, I actually

want to give you a
very recent example,

and I was telling Joyce
about it earlier, is

that I had the
privilege of being

invited as a leader to a White
House briefing last Friday.

And in the room, we were all
minority, majority leaders,

presidents of our legislative
body all over the state,

seven men, three women.

And I do feel like
the women's voices had

to struggle to be heard
and that I had to-- it

was-- some of the
men talked too long.

It was difficult to interrupt
them to get a word in edgewise.

I had to ask a question
three times to one

of the White House
staffers, all male,

that we met with
that [INAUDIBLE] he

would answer my question.

And I thought, what
is going on here?

And I actually think
that as women, we

have to develop
strategies sometimes

to get our voices heard.

If we're short, we have
to stand in a meeting.

We have to be
careful where we sit

at a table to make sure we
sit in a more power position.

Even in my caucus, I've
recommended as women that we--

I shouldn't give
away our secrets,

but we strategize that if one
woman will suggest an idea,

that other women and
sometimes men will chime in

and say, oh, I agree with what
representative Murphy just said.

I think that's
really a good idea.

Otherwise, you're in a situation
where you may suggest an idea,

there's dead silence.

Five minutes later, a man will
suggest the identical idea

and everyone says,
what a great idea.

So, I mean, these
are still issues

that we deal with to make
women's voices heard.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Senator Benson,
any attitude in the Senate

that you've recognized or felt?

MICHELLE BENSON: I think
Senator Pappas kind of

straightened some things out.

I haven't been in the Senate
quite as long as she has,

but I sometimes feel like
some of the men in our caucus

give a little too much
deference in an effort

to be especially thoughtful.

And I notice that once in a
while and I think, oh, OK,

that's an all right
thing for a little while

while we're adjusting to more
women coming into politics

and men learning how
to listen to a woman's

voice, a different perspective,
practicing sort of breaking up--

men interact as a
group differently

than women interact as a group.

And so as more women go into
politics, those men who've

been there, they're working
at it, and I appreciate that.

And I think that people
like Senator Pappas

put down the marker and
said, you know what?

Things are going
to be different,

and I think they're learning.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Let's
go to that laboratory,

even though Debbie
said I shouldn't.

Give me one thing, just
one, one issue, one policy,

one appropriation, one issue
that you as four women leaders

can bring to a
successful performance

at the end of the session
that's going to happen

that you can bring together.

Give me one thing that you
think is going to happen,

Majority Leader Peppin,
that you can bring forward

on the table for Minnesotans
in what May-- what is it?

The 18th or 19th?

What's the last day?

JOYCE PEPPIN: I think we're
going to have to consult here

as the four of us.

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

We haven't got that much time.

MICHELLE BENSON:
Mr. Speaker, I think

we would work collaboratively
to make a decision about what

topic we would--

STEVE SVIGGUM: OK.

Let's make the
topic be the budget.

The budget is the easier thing.

Give me one thing in
the budget that's--

and it's nice to have a
little surplus too, Joyces,

as you know.

Give me one thing that's going
to be in there at the end

that we can bring forward
that we can agree upon today.

JOYCE PEPPIN: I'm not sure.

I think that there are some
basic funding issues that we're

all going to agree with.

We're probably going to
disagree on the different levels

of funding.

Certainly, we all want to
take care of our seniors,

make sure that
they're taken care of.

We all want to
take care of kids,

make sure that they
get the world class

education they deserve.

How we get there,
though, however,

might be a different thing.

I also think this
session in particular,

transportation is going to
be something that we can all

agree we want to fund.

And again, we will have
different ideas of how

we want to fund transportation.

STEVE SVIGGUM: 16 cent gas
tax, Majority Leader Peppin?

JOYCE PEPPIN: No.

STEVE SVIGGUM: No.

OK.

We might-- OK.

Let me phrase it just a
little bit differently then.

Let me phrase this because
this is going to be too tough.

At the end of the session,
at the end of the session,

will the four of
you be able to find

some monies or some
initiatives or some mission

to address caregivers in nursing
homes and the achievement gap

that we face in Minnesota?

Will you be able to find some
movement on those two issues?

ERIN MURPHY: Yes.

STEVE SVIGGUM: That was
Majority Leader Erin Murphy,

and she said yes.

Those are two crucial
issues in my book anyway.

Senator Benson.

MICHELLE BENSON: I
believe so, but I think--

I've been working
a lot on MNsure,

and there's a lot of opportunity
there to sit down and really

work through a sticky issue.

And it's going to take sitting
down and listening and literally

drawing out different options.

And I think that's
something that we

could be particularly good at,
and it would be a real solution.

I think with all due respect,
funding for personnel

and nursing homes and
the achievement gap,

those are going to be
ongoing and iterative.

I think we're going to try
things and see improvement

and try things that don't work.

And I think those are iterative.

If you're looking for one
thing that we could actually

have a path of
success on, I think

sitting around a table,
Representative Murphy

and I could probably
figure out some things.

STEVE SVIGGUM: I'm
still going to try here.

Majority Leader Peppin,
Majority Leader Peppin,

Mr. Dayton has
put, I don't think,

any monies in his budget
for nursing homes.

Can we get some success for some
nursing home enhancement funding

by the end of the session?

JOYCE PEPPIN: I hope so.

And I didn't get a chance to
review his supplemental budget.

And I did get an opportunity
to have breakfast

with him a few
times this session

and he basically
said, well, we'll

see what you guys put forward
and then we'll discuss it more.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Sounds
like negotiations.

JOYCE PEPPIN: Sounds like he's
up for negotiations on this.

And I mean, for me, my
mom was in a nursing

home for more than 10 years.

And she passed away
a few years ago,

but I know when I went to visit
her, when I went to visit her,

I know that one of the things
that I always thought about was

who her staff person was and
if that staff person is going

to be there the next time
because I know from everybody

I've talked to on the
issue is one of the things

that they don't want to happen
with their loved ones is

that they have this
great life and then they

get put in a nursing
home and then

they can't have the same
staff person day after day.

And it's really disconcerting.

And so I think that
that's something

that we all have a
passion for, so it's just

a question of the funding
and the funding and the fact

that we need to find the
money to prioritize it.

But I think that the
governor is open to it,

and I would think that the
Senate would be open to that

as well because we
have found this to be

a problem throughout the state.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Senator Pappas,
a Democrat from St. Paul,

the biggest problem
in my book-- now,

my book doesn't have to be the
right book-- in Minnesota we're

facing is the achievement gap.

We're going to do
something about it?

SANDY PAPPAS:
Steve, I think we're

going to have consensus
around those two issues,

in particular, the aging
demographics and what we do

and how we care for
people and also how

we help our youngest learners.

And I think we actually
have not only among women

but among men, a broad consensus
over early childhood learning.

It's been 20 years in the
making, but I think we do--

and whether it's
scholarships or whether it's

universal preschool
programs, I'm

sure there's
something that's going

to happen around early
childhood learning.

ERIN MURPHY: I
mean, we have this--

STEVE SVIGGUM:
That's encouraging.

ERIN MURPHY: We have
this opportunity, right?

STEVE SVIGGUM: This is
representative Murphy, Democrat

from St. Paul.

ERIN MURPHY: --with
a growing economy

in most parts of
the state, though,

we have a little work to do
in parts of the state yet.

But a growing economy,
a surplus and a

predicted surplus not
only in the next biennium,

but the biennium after
that, to actually get

after some of
these problems that

will take not only thoughtful
decision making and compromise,

but also some money, right?

And in both of these cases, an
aging population and nursing

home care and closing
the achievement gap,

it is going to take some
innovation and some investment.

And we have the opportunity
to do that right now,

so I sure hope we make
progress on both those issues

this session.

STEVE SVIGGUM: I can't
sit here but help

be very comforted and very
impressed with all four of you.

I wish all 201 over there,
which was 10 miles away--

ERIN MURPHY: Not even.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Not-- eight miles
away, all 201 were you guys,

the four of you.

ERIN MURPHY: That
would be very--

STEVE SVIGGUM: I would be--

I'd be much more comforted.

As we close here--
and I'm sorry I

couldn't get to
all your questions.

But as we close, if
you would give me

a comment about the
future of women leadership

and a direct, direct advice
to Anika sitting here.

She's probably-- are you 12?

11?

ANIKA: 10.

STEVE SVIGGUM: 10.

OK.

So we're a few years away yet,
but preparation is important.

Give her a word of advice, if
you would, all four of you.

First of all, Representative
Murphy, Democrat from St. Paul.

ERIN MURPHY: Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.

And, Anika, first of all, finish
school, and pursue the life

that you want and know who you
are, because the most important

thing for those of us who
choose to run for office,

the most important
thing is to know

who we are so we can talk about
what we hope for Minnesotans.

And Minnesotans can tell if
we're not telling the truth,

so we got to know
ourselves and what

we want to accomplish before
we decide to run for office.

Now, I know because
we talked beforehand

that you're already
skilled at fundraising,

and that's an important skill.

So good on you for that.

I would be remiss
on two points here.

Phyllis Kahn is here.

State Representative
Phyllis Kahn is here.

She got here a little late.

And she has been a leader and
a mentor for so many of us,

and I'm really glad
that she's here.

There she is.

STEVE SVIGGUM: There she is.

[APPLAUSE]

ERIN MURPHY: That's right.

One other thing that I want
to make sure I talk about

is the work of Women Winning.

And they work with women, both
Democrats and Republicans,

who choose to run
for office, and they

helped prepare us before
we even decide on running.

And it is the work
of Women Winning

and Voices for
Conservative Women

and Emily's List and others
who help us find that path,

because it can be somewhat
bewildering in the beginning

to figure out how to go
from that gut feeling

like, I want to do this,
to actually putting

a campaign on the
ground and succeeding.

So know where your resources
are because they will help you

as you find your way.

And I know your mom is
going to help you too.

And maybe one day
she's going to run

for office as well because
that would be super cool.

STEVE SVIGGUM: We're
recruiting right now.

ERIN MURPHY: That's right.

I've been at it for
three terms now.

This is my third term
working on recruiting,

and it is an unending
pipeline, which

is-- it's a wonderful
experience, as you

know Mr. Speaker.

But you can't ever really stop.

You don't ever really
stop recruiting.

So get ready, Anika.

STEVE SVIGGUM: I
tried very, very hard

for 16 years to get more
women to run for office.

I felt they were better
candidates and maybe even better

representatives.

So the Senator Benson,
give us a word to Anika

and a little bit about
women in leadership.

MICHELLE BENSON: Absolutely.

And Anika and to other women,
old and young, know who you are,

be very confident in that and
build strong friendships outside

of politics because there
will come a day when you're

the only voice in
the room, and you

have to be absolutely sure
that you are on the right path

because that's how
you become the leader.

And then they're
going to be days

when you don't
become the leader,

and you need to have people
to go home to, people to call,

who will say, you know what?

You are absolutely right.

And don't you give up
and you keep going.

And that's what will
make you a leader

and it will make you successful.

You know absolutely who you
are and what you believe in,

and then everything else
will fall into place.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Thank you.

Senator Pappas from St. Paul.

SANDY PAPPAS: Thank you,
Steve, and thank you

to my fellow panelists for
all your words of wisdom.

They've been great today.

My advice is for Anika and
for all the women in the room

and all the women
listening is first of all,

step up and lean in.

We need you.

We need you in the workforce.

We need you in politics.

Plan ahead.

That's very important.

Certainly in politics or in
your career, find your passion.

Find something you're
passionate about.

And finally,
demonstrate leadership.

Be a leader around your passion.

And if your passion leads
you to public office,

which I hope it would--

I'm now asking you for the first
time, and everyone on the panel

is going to ask you
as well until we reach

seven times you're being asked,
that's all the better because we

can certainly use your
passion and your leadership

in public office.

STEVE SVIGGUM: Thank
you, Madam President.

And to the Majority Leader
of the Minnesota House,

Joyce Peppin.

JOYCE PEPPIN: Well, I think
there's tremendous opportunities

for women in politics.

I think those opportunities
will continue to improve.

And for Anika, I would
say believe in yourself,

first and foremost.

Believe that you can do it.

You can do it, and you will do
it if you set your mind to it.

Everybody is born with certain
strengths and weaknesses.

And I would say for
your strengths, work

on your strengths so that
they're even better than they

already are.

And I would say for your
weaknesses, work on those

as well.

And I'll give you an example.

When I was a kid, I was
absolutely terrified

of public speaking.

Absolutely terrified.

I couldn't do it.

I couldn't even-- I
remember getting sick.

I wouldn't come and
present in class one day.

And somebody, a smart
woman, gave me advice

and said, when you're
afraid of something,

you need to
challenge it head on.

So I joined speech and I joined
debate and I overcame that fear.

So I would say, no matter
what your strengths are,

work on them.

Whatever your weaknesses are,
work on those even harder

Follow your heart.

So do what you want
in life that follows

your heart because if
you're in a stuck in a job

that you don't like,
it's not going to be fun.

So do something you like.

Hopefully you'll end up
running for office someday

and you'll be able
to change the world.

And if not-- if you're
not going to change

the world from the
political point of view,

then change it in the
career path you take.

Good luck.

STEVE SVIGGUM: House Majority
Republican Leader Joyce Peppin,

Senate Democratic
president Sandy Pappas,

Assistant Minority Leader of the
Senate Michelle Benson and Erin

Murphy, the former
Majority Leader.

And are you assistant
leader now or not?

ERIN MURPHY: Deputy leader.

STEVE SVIGGUM:
Deputy leader right

now in the Minnesota House.

Thank you to the four
of you for being here.

Thank you for your service.

I feel more comforted
that Minnesota's in--

that you have Minnesota in our
best interests so thank you.

JOYCE PEPPIN: Thank you.

[APPLAUSE]

STEVE SVIGGUM: And thank
you all for coming.

Thank you.

[SIDE CONVERSATION]