Welcome to Explore Teach
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Hi, I'm Santiago from
U of M Extension,

and this is The Naturalist.
It podcasts that

aims to explore the
various topics within

the world of Minnesota
Natural Resources,

all while trying to
capture great stories

and talk to people
about the environment.

This week, we're talking forest

restoration on the North Shore,

what's involved,

or the challenges,

and how are landowners getting

involved in the process.

Who are we talking to today?

Well, I'm Mike Reichenbach,
University of Minnesota

Extension Educator, work
in forestry, work with

non-formal education
classes for woodland owners.

I'm Duane Lula. I serve
as the coordinator

for the North Shore
Forest Collaborative. I've

got a professional
forester, got a long history

of working in forestry
-related agencies,

and am now semi-retired.

I'm Molly Thompson, the
executive director of

Sugarloaf, the North Shore
Stewardship Association,

and our organization,
part of our

mission, is to work with
landowners on forest

restoration along
the North Shore.

And we partner with extension
and the collaborative

and a lot of groups to
help get that work done.

All right. Well, thank
you all for joining me.

And I've noticed, and I
know that you all do a ton

of work regarding restoration
on the North Shore.

And I think a valuable
question to ask is why

that's important and why
that's currently needed.

And I know y'all
do different things

with that, but
coming back to it,

why is restoration so important

when it comes to
the North Shore?

Well,

from my perspective,

and I started traveling up in

the North Shore in the 60s.

what was, and what
most people noticed

of the North Shore
is the birch forest.

And as that birch
forest is aged,

it started to decline.

It started dying.

We've had some ice storms,

and those birch are
falling apart. Now,

that kind of asks
the question of, why

was this a birch
forest? And is this the

right place for a
solid birch forest?

I think the answer to that,

really we need to look at
the settlement history of

the North Shore. And so when
we look at how the North

Shore was settled, where
there was forest clearing,

where there were
fires that created

ideal conditions for
birch to regenerate.

So we have areas up around

Tofti that were burned in 1925.

birch seeded in, came
in as a pure stand,

that's an early
successional species.

It's the first species
that's on the site.

And birch on the
north shore, they live

about 80 years, and
then they start done.

And so that's where
we're at with the

forest on the north
shore. We're really at 90

years. Some of those
are 100 years old.

And we were left with birch.

And so you think
about what was there

prior to the birch. It
was more white pine,

more northern white cedar.

Some of the longer
-lived conifers were part

of that. First certainly
was part of the

Norchoror, but it wasn't
pure perch stance.

And so we had this
longer-lived conifer.

And it's trying to introduce
back into the system

a seed source for that
longer-lived conifer,

something that will go
ahead in 100 or 200 years.

created a very recent
for us. And the

question is, you know,
often asked, well,

what happened to those
conifers? You know,

why didn't they come
back after the fire? And,

you know, there's
several reasons for that.

One is a lot of the larger

white pines were logged off.

You know, they went to build
the booming communities

at the turn of the
century, the last century.

And so there just
wasn't a seed source

to seed back in in
order to replenish

those conifers. A
lot of the cedars,

they just got burned up in the

fires, the big fires
that were there.

And even some of the
seed source that is there

now doesn't get a chance
to regenerate the conifer

seed source because of
the deer population.

And the deer in the
wintertime tend to migrate

to the shore because
the snow depth is less.

It's a little bit warmer.

And anytime they can find
a white pine or a cedar,

it's like candy to them and
they munch it right down.

So the restoration that
we do get involved in, we

have to try and do things
that will prevent the deer

from eating those trees
until they're out of reach.

Now,

going off that,

is there a part of the
forest up there that serves

as an example of what
you want to achieve? Or

is most of just the North
Shore just that kind of

needs the help to get
back to where it once was?

Well, there is the
encampment forest.

It's between the two
tunnels when you're going

up 61 after you come out
of two harbors. and we

use that as an example of
a forest that still has

the large white pines
on it close to the shore

and cedar you can see
large cedar they have been

affected by deer but there
are still a lot of the large

ones left in there there
are spotty patches other

places just outside of
beaver bay there's a nice

private property but those
are generally kind of few

and far between as you go
up but we usually use the

encampment forest is the
best example but that

even even that isn't a well
-functioning forest because

again of the deer brows
while the large old trees

are still there the young
trees in the understory

the young conifers are not
there because they've been

brows so encampment is
also involved in the

restoration effort and working
with nature Conservancy

to manage those lands and
actually do some reforestation

underneath those old trees
so that in the future

there will be younger
trees to take their place.

Now,

some of the challenges,
you mentioned deer

being one of the
major challenges. Now,

is that widespread? Is it
or is it just one section

of the shore where it's
the most challenging?

Do you have other challenges
associated with the

rest of the North Shore
forest or is it mostly

on the shore aspect of
it, like he said earlier.

The deer come down to
the shore, all the whole,

the whole realm of the
shore, they come down because

that's their winter
yarding area, warmer or

less snow, so the whole
shore. But you go inland,

if you're talking about
further inland and

up the hill, yeah,
there are less of a

problem inland because
all those deer have

come down to the shore
in the wintertime.

You know, there's
a lot of them in

that big area than
they all, I mean,

they're spread out
up in the arrowhead,

and then they funneled
down and get to be much

more dense down on the
shore and impacting all

the trees down on the shore.
Yeah, I would say deer

are a problem probably
wherever you go in

northern Minnesota in terms
of forest regeneration.

It's just a very intensified

program on the North Shore.

And when we talk about
restoration of the

North Shore, we're
pretty much talking about

from the shoreline
of Lake Superior to

three or four miles
inland up from the shore.

You know, kind of
once you get past,

you know, up on top
of the North Shore

highlands or the North Shore

Mountains, as people
refer to them here,

the problem is less
severe. And literally,

the hardwoods and the
maples are probably more.

native to that area than
they are closer down to the

shore you know where are
some of the steps that

people are you guys take to
kind of or where there are

some of the steps being
taken to kind of limit the

impact of the year on the
regeneration process I'll

go ahead and you start
with that I think I don't

want to give credit to a
Dave Ingerbertson retired

Department of Natural
Resource wildlife biologist

for coming up with an idea
of planting 10 to 15 trees

and fencing them, doing
a good job of planting,

and then protecting those trees

with this welded wire fence

that's somewhere, you
know, five, six foot tall,

three foot, four
foot diameter cages,

individual cages for the trees.

And, you know, I think
out of all the protection

measures that we try
to do is foresters to

protect large numbers of
seedlings from deer, or

even large exclosures.
This individual three

exclosure on the North
Shore, this idea from Dave,

is working very well.

Yeah, we, if you go
inland, you'd easily see

the difference. You know,
they can bud cap the

pieces of paper over the
top of a tree inland.

But then when you come
down to the shore,

it's where fencing is needed.
we found budcapping just

doesn't work the deer will
just take the piece of

paper off so that's what
we've had the main thing we do

is the fencing of trees and
sometimes people have done

larger exclosures but the
landowner really has to be

on top of it because a dead
birch tree breaks off and

lands on your fence and
that's a little opening and

the deer are in there and they
wipe out all all the trees

that you've planted as
opposed to if one single

exposure gets hit and knocked
out and it kills one tree.

So the single exclosures
have been the way

that we usually recommend
with most landowners.

And we talk about landowners
and land managers,

and that's one thing
that's kind of unique

to the shore is
there are many, many

players there. There's
the private landowner,

and most people,
when they think of

Lake and Cook
counties, they think of

it as predominantly
government land.

That's true when you
look at the county

as a whole, but when
you look at that area

that's right down
close to the shore,

the landowner is actually
the largest, or the

private landowner is
actually the largest

landowner segment that's
close to the shore.

But there certainly are other

players in that. The DNR,

obviously there's the state
parks. I think there's

what eight state parks
up the shore. And so

they are a major player.
There's state forests,

wildlife management areas.

Scientific and natural areas.

And so the DNR
owns a considerable

amount of land on the shore,

as does the Forest
Service. Once you get up to

about tofti and then north
past Grand Maray, the

Forest Service has
considerable ownership there.

and Lake County as well,
Lake County Forest.

So those agencies are
also involved in some of

the same types of restoration
efforts that we're

talking and participating
in this restoration

effort that looks at the
North Shore as a whole.

Now,

having so many people and

stakeholders in
that specific area,

has it been fairly
easy to work together

to kind of towards
this common goal

of restoring the
North Shore? Well,

that's a really good question
because that really kind

of gets at the heart of
how all of these different

players have come together
to try and work together.

And I can't remember the exact

quote if I had it
in front of me.

I can cite it. But
it was, you know,

together we can
accomplish more than

any one. of us could
have accomplished

individually with
regard to restoration.

And so probably back in 2011,

the North Shore Force
Collaborative was an idea

that got raised of we
have all these different

agencies and we have all
these private landowners that

some of them want to do
something, some of them

are not even aware of the
situation. How do we all

come together and discuss
and address this problem?

And that really was the
formation of the North

Shore Forest Collaborative,
and what that

collaborative works to do is
to tie all of these ideas,

all of these
different agencies,

and all of these private
landowners together to

work towards that common
goal of restoration.

Now,

that's really interesting.

I didn't know how that came

together. But
looking at it now,

how does it compare to
that initial stages?

Well, I think like with
any organization, it takes

a little while to get
established and to get moving.

But I think over the
last several years, the

collaborative really has
taken off in terms of being

able to get projects
accomplished. One of the benefits

of working together is
that applying for funding

and grants in order to
do projects is much more

attractive to those grantors
when they see different

agencies and private
individuals working

together. And so the Forest
Service and the DNR and

Sugarloaf have worked
together to get grants that

accomplish restoration on
all of their properties.

The collaborative in
Sugarloaf have worked together

to get grants that help
private landowners with

fencing materials and with
knowledge and information.

And then just the
different agencies like

the private forest
division of the DNR and

the Natural Resource
Conservation Service,

they also, I mean,
some of their missions

are to work with
private landowners.

And so they're gearing them

towards these
restoration efforts.

So it really has helped
push that effort and

grow it. And we think
that where we are right

now is nowhere near
where we can ultimately

be with trying to
accomplish this restoration.

Yeah, I'd like to add a
little bit to that. You know,

the individual organizations
of the North Shore

individual landowners were
doing restoration work back in

2009, you know, 1999 when
I started here. But it was

individual efforts aimed at
kind of individual goals.

You know, some of those
might be to restore

the logging yard at
Sugarloff, the North Shore

Stewardship Association
from a red pine

plantation to something
a little more resilient.

You know, some
of those were the

Department of
Natural Resources.

State parks were doing
a lot of planting

and a lot of individual
tree. closures.

But when the collaborative
came together in

2011, people started
talking about all of the

work being done to
restore different areas.

And I think that's
really what sparked.

Well, what can be
done? How can we help a

landowner restore these
long-lived conifers?

And so, you know, 10 to
15 trees per acre and

not maybe on every acre,
but get a seed source

out there. Those ideas
started coming up.

the collaborative,
I don't think

we would have gotten there.

And all that said, this is a

very long-term proposition.

I mean, I think we're
talking about within

the North Shore Forest
Collaborative area,

I think there's some
like 270,000 acres.

So it's like from the
shore to three and a

half miles inland and
from the Knife River,

essentially up to
the Canadian border.

So that's a lot of
acres. even if we

restored a thousand
acres a year which

we're currently not
doing it would take us

270 years to do that

and even when you do
plant the trees people

will drive along the
shore and go well it

still looks like dead
and dying birch to me

you actually won't
see those trees until

they're you know six
eight or ten feet tall

And at that point in
time, they're definitely

beyond the reach of
the deer, and so, you

know, the fencing can
come down and be used

for planting and
protecting other trees. But

it is a long-term
effort, and as Mike said,

those few trees that
were planting per acre

really are there to serve
as seed source for a

future generation of those
long-lived connoisse.

Now,

that brings up an
interesting point is, do you

find it difficult to
convey that message, to

convey the timescale of
this project to certain

landowners or different
parties within the area,

try to get them on board,
that type of thing?

Or is it come easy and do
people understand the situation

that it's going to take a
long time? I've seen change

just in about one problem.
years I've been around,

that are the first lost
force class, landowner

education class I was
involved in with Mike.

Those landowners,

it was more, can
we get our birch

back? How do we get
our birch back? You

know, that was
their main question.

And now with our current class,

these are different folks,
but that's not really

the question anymore.
The question is more,

how do I make my forest
healthy? So obviously we've

seen a little bit of a
mindset change with the public

along the shore, but definitely
there are people that

still need to learn, especially
like new people buying

those cottages on the shore
and all their ones that

there's a lot of education
needed. But there seems to

be a bit of a change of mind
of what the shore can be.

Part of it's probably
because most of the birch are

dying pretty good right
now. And when we started

out, there was still a lot
of more healthier looking

ones. But I think the
attitude is changing, a bit.

There still are those
landowners, I think,

that, you know,

they are never going
to quite understand or

want to understand.
They have a different

thought of how they
want to use their land.

I think that certainly getting

the word out is, you know,

that's an effort.

There are people that
are not knowledgeable

that, you know, hey,
that tree may have a

dead top on it, but it's
still got some green

leaves on it and I'm
good with. with it.

What's the problem?

On the other hand,

as more and more people get
involved in restoration,

they talk to their
neighbors or their neighbors

see that they're doing
something and wonder

what's going on. So
that word is spreading.

And what we've seen from
people that have participated

in some of these programs
is they are aware

that this is a long-term,
a long-term solution.

Most of them talk
about I'm doing this

for my children and
I'm doing it for

my grandchildren
and I realized that

you know when I first came
up here and my grandpa

talked to me about how
there were these big huge

cedars and big huge pines
and and I never saw those

because I was of two
generations down just as that

happened I'm now doing this
for my grandchildren so

that they will be able to
see those trees. So there

is that realization that
it is a long-term process.

So we've done interviews
with what we call the Lost

Forest Project. It's a
education program for

woodland owners along the
North Shore and those woodland

owners have told us as
cabin owners, you know,

they might own a half acre,
they may own 200 acres,

but they've told
us that the reasons

they come up to
the North Shores

because they love
the natural setting,

they like the lake. This
is something they're

very connected to. So
when we think about,

you know, is this a hard
message to get across,

for most landowners,
this is very

easy to accept? And
then when we talk

about a specific
action of planting,

and I'll go back to the
10 to 15 trees break or

in fencing them, it becomes
something they can do,

both from a cost
standpoint and from time.

And that's often a barrier
in other restoration

programs where forest
restoration can

be very, very expensive
in this setting.

We can break it down into
some simple steps over a long

period of time. How did
that program start, the last

forest program? How did that
get going and, you know,

how was it very much?
in the early days.

Well, back in the early
days was it was Sugarloaf,

the North Shore Stewardship
Association's idea.

They saw a real
need, you know, that,

yes, they saw that
they were doing

restoration on their
own property up

at the Nature Center
up near Struder.

But they said, you know,
we need to go ahead and

get this word out. people
all along the shore.

And so they knew about the
Minnesota Department of

Natural Resource Forestries
stewardship plans and

planning program and said
we might be able to combine

some educational
resources and information

and some stewardship planning
for landowners. So the

first group of people that
went through this program

worked with a consultant,
got a stewardship plan, and

also the University of
Minnesota Extension was

contracted with to go ahead and
put on 80 hours of instruction

for cabin owners and
woodmen owners on forest

restoration and so it's
grown from that to I believe

we're in the third group
fourth group yeah yes yes this

is my third so that's
fourth yeah this is a fourth

group and so total of we're
probably on about 80 or

90 landowners now that have
been through this type of

educational program and
still lots of interest and

that program we hope to
continue but we also hope to

supplement that through
something we call a neighbor

-to-neighbor program so all
of these folks that have

been through this more
rigorous training I would say

with the university and
having visits to land and

talking about and doing
restoration on their lands, we

hope that some of those
will become what we call

ambassadors and then they
will go out to their neighbors

because it's a peer-to-peer
kind of learning of, you

know, you live next door to
this guy and you know him

pretty well and this family
is doing some things on

their land and they can share
that with their neighbors

And so then we hope that
that will be kind of like

a chain reaction that will
help spread the word and

spread the knowledge and
techniques far beyond what,

you know, we might be able
to do with more limited

resources with more intensive
or formalized training.

Yeah, it's kind of
putting together that

the sense of community
that is very important

when it comes to a
lot of conservation,

science,

and restoration projects.
And the North Shore

is like a community.
I mean, it's a very

long and narrow one and
certainly, you know,

has many different
players in it. But I

think everyone has that
sense of, you know,

being part of the
North Shore community.

And is that kind of
in the early stages?

Or, you know, what the
goal for that would be to

incorporate it into
current projects as, like,

addition to the current
class or is it you want

to have it separate as
an optional part for

people who went through
the loss for his class

and then well it is in
the early stages but we

hope uh in in working
uh with the university

help me out with the title
of that program northeast

sustainable part yeah
northeast minnesota

sustainable development
partnership there we're working

with them on this neighbor
to neighbor program

And so over the
next three years,

hopefully later this
summer, we will launch

that program and get
some of these ambassadors

trained up. And then
over the next couple of

years, they will filter
out into the community

and start spreading the
word and the knowledge.

So yeah, it's just at the
beginning stages, but something

that we've certainly been
thinking about and now

working with the university
it looks like we have got

the ability to go ahead
and implement that program

so we have some high hopes
for that that's awesome now

are there any other programs
that are i'm kind of

missing here that we have
our reduced cost fencing

program for landowners thanks
to the generous donation

from a private family
foundation we have been able to

offer fencing. We should
mention that they're the Weeks

Family Foundation. I said,
they want to know that.

Okay.

And they,

out of Wisconsin,
I'll add that.

They give us a bunch
of, a bunch of money

to offer, to purchase
fencing, rolls,

rebar and mats to, we purchase

it through two prizes. private,

what we call it,
lumber yards or,

I don't know what you call
the one in two harbors,

but they purchase a
fencing for us, and

then we offer to
landowners at about third.

Approximately a third
of the retail cost.

Yep.

Because while the trees
are really inexpensive,

the fencing, you know,
is somewhat prohibitive

for private landowners
to provide. So they get

a 50-foot roll fence
and six-foot high fence

with two rebars to
anchor it and then mat to

protect the seedling from
competing vegetation.

And that would normally
cost probably about

$80 or so at a big box
retailer for all of that.

and we provide that to
them for $25 or $30.

Yep.

And it's a very
popular program. Right.

We had about 100
landowners last year.

In fact, last year
2017, we had to,

the funder generously
gave us a second amount of

funding to be able to reach
100 landowners after we

quickly sold out to 50.
Yeah, the demand was very

high. So this year they
provided the funding to

fund for approximately 100
landowners. and owners,

it'll work out too.

How many rolls of fences?
512 rolls of fencing.

And I think last year,

with that much
fencing that was used,

it was,

I think it was a couple of

thousand trees
that were fenced.

And then in addition to
that, those people that

participated in the program
also planted like another

5,000 or more trees.
trees that didn't need

fencing, trees like spruce
and some other species that

the deer are not that
enamored of so they don't

necessarily chew them
down. So there was a big

reforestation effort as
a result of that fencing

program, just even beyond
the trees that were fenced.

And that's really amazing
that we're able to do that

from that private
foundation donation that our

partners haven't been able
to do but this family is

so interested in restoring
the forest on the North

Shore this is direct on the
ground work that's being

done by the landowners
so that's been great and

probably one of the most
popular programs that the

group has been able to say
they've done that really

shows we're working with
the private landowners so

That wraps up for this
episode of The Naturalist.

We've been having a
conversation with Mike

Reichenbach, Dwayne,
Lubba, and Molly Thompson

about forest restoration
on the North Shore.

If you want to learn more
about any of the programs

discussed here or just forest
restoration on the North

Shore in general, feel free
to log on to Sugarloaf,

North Shore.org.

Thanks for listening
and have a great day.