From  Alumni  Relations  at the  University  of  Minnesota,  Rochester. Welcome  to  the  final  episode of  this  season  of  Beyond  the  Nest. I'm  Marco  Lands,  Umar, Director  of  Alumni  Development  Relationships. In  this  episode,  we  hear  from  2019  graduate  Monica  Zabel, as  she  catches  up  with  UMR student  success  coach  Grace  Nelson. The  two  chat  about  what  brought  Monica  to  UMR, navigating  changes  to academic  and  professional  aspirations, and  building  a  career  focused  on  resilience, mental  health,  and  well  being. Monica  is  a  licensed alcohol  and  drug  counselor  with  New  Way, a  nonprofit  serving  individuals  recovering  from co  occurring  substance  use  and  mental  health  disorders. Following  UMR,  Monica  went on  to  earn  a  Master's  of  Professional  Studies  in addiction  counseling  from  the  University  of  Minnesota's College  of  Continuing  in  Professional  Studies. And  she's  currently  pursuing  a  second  Master's  degree  in social  work  from  St.  Mary's University  here  in  Rochester,  Minnesota. Hi,  my  name  is  Monica, but  I  graduated  from  UMR  in December  of  2019  with  my  Bachelor's  in  Health  Science. Then  from  there  I  went  on  to the  University  of  Minnesota  Twin  Cities, and  I  got  my  master's  in  addiction  counseling. I  passed  my  license  exam, got  my  LDC  in  July. And  now  I'm  currently  working  at  New  Way  in Rochester  at  an  intensive  outpatient  services. Now,  I  just  started  another  Master's. I'm  doing  a  Master's  in  social  work. Through  through  what  school? Or  St.  Mary's. Okay.  What  brought  you  to  UM  R  in  the  first  place? I  liked  the  small  class  sizes. I  felt  like  I  was  going  to  be able  to  get  a  better  education  that way  because  I'd  be  able  to  have  more one  on  one  time  with  professors, more  collaboration  with  students. I  didn't  want  to  sit  in  a  lecture  hall  of  400  kids. Just  listen  for  an  hour  and  a  half and  then  go  figure  it  out  by  myself. That  was  really  appealing  about  U  R  to  me. I  liked  the  location. It's  a  very  small  town, big  city  type  thing. So  sure,  I  don't  know, I  got  that  feeling  of  being  downtown, but  I  was  still  really  comfortable  because it's  basically  like  the  suburbs  in  Rochester. So  it  was  really  familiar  to  home  for  me. So  now  that  you've  been  through  MR.  Did  it  live  up  to those  expectations  that  you  had  coming  in? It  was  it  was  a  lot  harder  than  I  thought  it  would  be. I  mean,  I  graduated  high  school  with  my  associates, so  I  thought  I  had  a  really  good  foundation  of what  that  college  experience was  going  to  be  like  academically. Omar  definitely  surpassed  my  expectations. It  was  a  lot  harder  than  I  thought  it  would  be  for  sure. Work  way  harder?  Yeah.  Well,  okay. So  even  thinking  back  to  that, like  I  don't  know. Yeah,  I  remember  talking  to you  about  how  hard  classes  were, but  however  you  got  through  them,  right? So  like  what  were  some  of  the, like  what  some  of  the  biggest  challenges that  you  feel  like  you  faced  you  overcome, and  how  do  you  feel  about  it? Now,  I  think  some  of  the  biggest  challenges  we're recognizing  that  I  had  to  put  in  the  work, Whereas  high  and  even getting  my  associates  came  really  naturally  to  me. I  didn't  have  to  study, I  didn't  have  to  put  in  extra  work. But  UMR  really  pushed  me  and  made  me  realize  like, hey,  this  is  going  to  be  harder  than  you  think. There's  a  lot  more  than  just  the  surface  area. You  have  to  go  a  lot  deeper  to be  able  to  keep  up  at  UMR  learning. That  was  difficult  but  it  was  manageable. Another  thing  I  think  when  everybody  goes  to  college, or  at  least  when  I  did,  I  thought  I'm  going  to  meet my  best  friends  that  are  going  to  be friends  with  me  for  the  rest  of  my  life. It's  going  to  be  the  best  experience. I  did  meet  some  friends  and  that  was  great. But  also  I  met  some  people that  had  different  goals  or  focuses  than I  did  and  made  it  hard  to  focus  on school  because  I  did  want  to  socialize  so  much. I  think  towards  my  last  couple  semesters, I  really  realized  that  I  need  to  put more  focus  in  school  than  on  the  social  aspect  of  it. And  that  if  those  friendships  are  real, then  they'll  continue  while I'm  still  staying  focused  on  what  I  have  to  do. It  was  a  hard  lesson.  Yeah.  Well,  I  like  how  you put  that  though  because  I  think  that's  a  lot  of  people's, I  don't  know,  aspirations  when  going  to  college. Is  that  like,  yes,  I'm  going  to  meet  my  best  friend and  this  is  the  time  of  our  lives  and  everything. But  then  also,  yeah, you  get  school,  you  have  to  do  classes, and  you  have  life  after  college, which  you  are  like  flourishing  in  right  now. That's  a  good  perspective  to  bring  all  at  the  same  time. I'm  going  to  bring  up  you originally  started  out  as  pre  med, you  go  into  medical  school. We  haven't  talked  since  in  a  while, but  with  all  these  other  things  that you're  doing,  but  Okay. What's  the  thoughts  on  medicine, medical  school,  and  that  goal? Yeah.  I  originally  went  to  get  my Master's  in  Professional  Studies and  Addiction  Counseling  in  my  L, ADC,  my  alcohol  and  Drug  counseling  license  in  Minnesota. Just  as  something  for  fun, something  to  make  me  stand  out  from other  students  applying  for  medical  school. Because  I  didn't  want  to  be  a  medical  scribe. I  didn't  want  to  do  what  everybody  else  does. I  don't  want  to  be  a  CNA. I  wanted  to  stand  out. And  so  I  thought,  okay,  who doesn't  masters  before  medical  school? That's  just.  So  I  was  like, I  do  like  it. I'm  going  to  go  ahead  and  do  it  because  I'm  interested. It'll  be  important  because  I  wanted  to  do psychiatry  when  I  was  a  generals  I learned  a  lot  about  co  occurring disorders  and  how  important  it  is to  also  look  at addiction  when  you're  focusing  on  mental  health. I  just  thought  it  would  be something  that  complemented  that. Well  then  it  turns out  when  I  was  doing  my  internship  practice  for  my  LA  DC, I  had  to  do  880  H  of internship  at a  substance  use  disorder  facility  of  my  choice. I  ended  up  loving  individual  therapy  so much  that  I  decided  I  want  to  be  a  therapist. And  so  that's  why  now  I'm  going  to  get another  Master's  so  I  can  do  that. Congratulations  to  the  more  than  150  new  Raptor  alumni who  graduated  from  the  University  of  Minnesota, Rochester. On  Saturday,  May  14, from  the  Male  Civic  Center,  UMR, students  were  awarded  diplomas in  the  Bachelors  of  Science  and  Health Sciences  and  the  Bachelors  of Science  and  Health  Professions  degree  programs, as  well  as  those  earning  their  masters  and  doctorates  in Bioinformatics  and  Computational  Biology. Capping  the  day's  events  was 2020  UMR  graduate  and current  UFM  medical  student  Amara  Iraq, welcoming  new  graduates  into the  Rafter  alumni  community  as  they  make  us,  MR.  Proud. So  now  you're  doing  individual  therapy? Yeah.  Now  I'm  at  New  Way  in Rochester  and  it's  an  intensive  outpatient. It's  a  Sam  level  2.1 And  what  that  means  is  we're  seeing  clients who  just  got  out  of  residential  treatment  for substance  abuse  and  now they're  typically  living  in  a  sober  house. They're  starting  to  get  all  those  pieces  together, like  mental  health  therapy, a  DBT  group,  which  is  dialectical  behavioral  therapy. Maybe  they're  doing  a  CBT  group. So  cognitive  behavioral  therapy. And  they're  just  putting  all  the  pieces  together, getting  primary  care  dentists. And  so  we  really  helped  facilitate  the  process  of  that. We  do  group  therapy  and  individuals.  Okay. Okay.  Is  there  anything? I  just  remember  doing my  Master's  program  through  counseling  though, but  yet  having  that  practice  with individuals  doing  group  therapy  and  things  like  that. I  just  know  that  there  was some  clients  or  issues  that  I  just loved  and  just  like  was  really  drawn to  or  disorders  that I  just  thought  that  were  so  interesting. Are  you  are  you  finding  that are  you  finding  anything  within  your  current  role like  that  that's  really  energizing for  you  that  keeps  you  going  to  work  every  day? Yeah.  So  I  haven't  been  able  to  do  it  as  much  now. But  when  I  was  doing  my  internship  at Nester  Minnesota's  up  in  Eden  Prairie,  Minnesota, we  did  a  lot  of  one  on  one  sessions with  individuals  and  their  family members  because  having  family, a  part  of  their  treatment  is  something that  they  highlight  at  that  company. So  I  actually  really  enjoyed  working with  the  spouses  of  my  clients  and getting  them  to  understand what  they  can  do  in  a  healthy  way without  enabling  the  client  to  continue  to  use. Yeah,  I  don't  know. I  think  I  still  need  to  figure  out  exactly  if  there's any  specific  disorders  and  stuff  that  I  find more  interesting  just  because it's  out  of  my  scope  right  now. So  I  try  not  to  get  too  far  into  it, but  I'm  sure  when  I  get  into  my  clinical  practicum  for my  MSW  that  I will  start  to  experience  that  and  figure  out  what. I  am  interested  in  What  ways  has UMR  prepared  you  for  that  level  of  rigor? I  mean,  the  most  helpful  thing  to  me  would  be  the  reading because  there  was  a  lot  of  reading that  we  had  to  do  at  UMR because  there  was  so  much  information that  we  were  trying  to  learn. At  Master's  level,  there  is  a  lot  of  reading. But  I  think  the  difference  for  me  is that  UMR  is  very  test  heavy, which  is  something  that  I  have  difficulties  with where  my  Master's  program  is  writing. And  I  do  really  well  at  writing. I  was  able  to  graduate  with  a 4.0  which  is  really  exciting  for  me because  I  was  feeling  a  little  bit  down  after my  academic  process  and  progress,  I  guess  at  UMR. Because  I  just  didn't  achieve  at the  level  that  I  thought  I  would  mean, I  still  graduated  and  I  had  a  three  point  something. It  wasn't  awful,  but  it  just wasn't  what  I  thought  it  would  be. I  think  it  also  led  me  going  into my  Masters  with  lower  expectations  for  myself, which  ended  up  actually  helping  me. Then  I  gained  some  more  confidence when  I  did  do  well  and  when  I  did  succeed. And  I  passed  with  all  As. Okay.  Yeah,  you're  like  surprising  yourself  like  day. Okay.  There's  another  A,  another  A.  All  right. So  I  think  the  most  important  part  of  that, what  I  came  to  learn  was  that it's  not  that  I  was  dumb  or  not  smart  enough, which  was  something  I  struggled  with  at  MR, but  it  was  that  that's  just  not  what  I  was  meant  to  do. I'm  not  meant  to  be  a  test  taker,  maybe. I  wasn't  meant  to  be  a  psychiatrist  and  do  medicine. And  I  am  meant  to  do  something in  the  counseling  realm  because  I  do  well. I'm  doing  extremely  well  in  my  Master's  programs, and  I  think  that  that  just  shows that  I  am  smart  and  there  are  things  that  I  can  do even  if  it's  not  what  I  planned  it  to be  at  that  time  when  I  started  at  UMR. Oh,  that's  so  true. I'm  so  glad  to  hear  that  from  you. Well,  beyond  the  nest  steps  away  for some  summer  R,  we  would  like  to  hear  from  you. Check  out  this  episodes, show  notes  for  how  to  get  in  touch  and share  your  UMR  journey. Now  back  to  Monica  and  Grace  as  they  reflect  on  advice  to current  students  in  the  impact  of  success  coaches. What  other  advice  would  you  give  to yourself  or  to  students?  Now? To  my  younger  self, I  would  give  the  advice  to  explore  different  careers. Hmm.  Because  I  was  so  set  on  being a  psychiatrist  that  I  had a  little  bit  of  a  mental  breakdown when  I  decided  I  didn't  want  to  go to  medical  school  because  that  was  such  a  big  piece, I  thought,  who  am  I  going  to  be  now? I  can't  be  successful  if  I  don't  go  to  medical  school. And  I  had  ingrained  that  thought  in my  brain  for  so  long  that  I  have  to  go  to  medical  school to  be  successful  that  I  didn't even  give  myself  the  opportunity  to  look  at different  avenues  or  look  at different  careers  in  the  same  field. It's  so  silly  because  there's so  many  different  options  in mental  health  that  I  could  have  gone  into. And  I  didn't  realize  it  until  I  finally heard  how  much  my  clients  hate  their  psychiatrists. I  was  like,  yeah, I  don't  want  to  be  that  person. I  like  having  the  client  clinician  relationship. I  like  being  a  part  of  their  treatment. I  don't  want  to  meet  with  somebody  for 10  min  every  three  months  and  say, okay,  your  meds  are  working  great, I'll  see  you  next  time. That  just  does  not  sound  fulfilling  to me  without  having  different  experiences. I  don't  think  I  would  have  realized  that  or I  would  have  realized  it  too  late. Definitely,  the  career  exploration  class, I  didn't  take  it  seriously  enough. Yeah.  Where  did  that  come  from? That  influence  that  just  even  starting  out  with  like this  neuro  mindset  on medical  school.  What  influenced  that? Ever  since  I  was  younger,  I  said  I  wanted  to  be  a Dr.  the  thought  of being  anything  besides  that  was  scary. I  did  feel  like  I  lost  a  big  part  of my  identity  and  it  was  something  that  I  did. And  I  still  am  grieving  over  because  ever  since  I was  five  years  old  when  you fill  out  that  thing  in  the  yearbook, and  it's  your  first  question  with  your  little  picture, and  everybody  wants  to  be  a  president  or a  soccer  player  or  whatever,  and  be  in  the  NFL, I  wanted  to  be  a  Dr.  it  was just  something  that  I  thought  for a  long  time  not  achieving  that  was  difficult. But  I  am  learning  now  be  successful, and  I  will  enjoy  my  job  more  if  I'm  doing  something that  I'm  passionate  about  versus  something that  I  thought  I  could  be  passionate  about. Right.  Yeah,  I  know  that's such  an  important  message  just  to  hear  now  too  because it  is  like  some  students just  hold  onto  that  until  the  end. And  then  once  they  graduate, it's  like  medical  school  might  not  be  an  option, at  least  for  right  now,  even  if  it's  not  right  now. I  think  that  like Exploration  to  see  what  else  is  out  there  is  key to  ensuring  that  you're going  to  find  a  career  that  makes  you  happy  eventually. What's  something  that  you  miss  about  UMR? You  were  only  there  for  two  years. I'd  just  like  to  point  that  out, like  getting  your  associates  ahead  of  time, but  yet  just  rocking  out and  getting  through  your  undergrad. What's  something  you  miss  about  UMR? This  might  be  silly, but  the  thing  that  I  missed  the  most was  the  inner  mural  volleyball. I  hoping  you  would  say that  my  favorite  and the  best  experience  that  I  had  at  UMR  by  far, I  was  really  frustrated with  myself  that  I  didn't  go  to  a  school  where I  could  play  volleyball and  I  struggled  with  that  a  lot  because  that  was another  piece  of  my  identity  and  I  was an  athlete  that  peaked  later  in my  athletic  high  school  career. I  didn't  really  think  about  it too  much  until  it  was  too  late. And  having  the  opportunity to  be  able  to  play  volleyball  and  play with  my  friends  was definitely  something  that  I  miss  a  lot. And  that  was  part  of  the  reason that  I  was  so  excited  to  move  back to  Rochester  because  of the  National  Volleyball  Center  here. I  play  on  teams  with my  friends  and  yeah,  it's  a  lot  of  fun. Nice.  Are  you  coaching  anymore? Okay. Not  anymore. I  didn't  No  time,  right? Yeah,  there's  no  way working  full  time  and  my  Master's  programs  full  time, I  just  I  can't squeeze  it  in  and  still  be  able  to  practice  self  care. Right.  Like  what  triggered you  to  go  into  social  work  then? I  just  I  could  have continued  in  the  program  that  I  was  in  and gotten  my  LPC  C,  do  normal  therapy, but  I  sure  I  thought  I  wanted  to  get my  D  or  a  Phd because  that  title  of  Dr.  is  just  so  important  to  me. I  was  like,  I  can  get  it  a  different way  more  I  looked  into  it, I  was  like,  okay,  what's  my  ultimate  goal? My  ultimate  goal  is  to  have  my  own  practice. I  can  achieve  that  by getting  to  be  a  licensed  independent  social  worker. That's  what  I  want  to  do.  From  my  understanding, it's  easier  to  move  around  the  states  with a  social  work  license  than  it  is  for an  LPC  C  just  because  of  different  laws  or  ethics, things  like  that  that  vary. But  social  work  I've seen  is  pretty  similar  across  the  board. Yeah.  Yeah,  that's  great. And  was  the  application  process  as  similar to  your  master's  in addiction  counseling  or  different?  Yeah. I  mean,  filling  out  there's  some  essays and  little  things  that  you  have  to  type  up. They  don't  take  too  long. It  depends  on  the  program. One  thing  that  I  liked  at  the  U was  they  gave  you  an  opportunity  to explain  why  your  grades  were  a  certain  way.  They  were. Oh,  and  if  you  do  have  difficulty  in  your  undergrad, I  want  to  make  it  clear,  that  doesn't  mean  you can't  get  into  graduate  school. You  can  explain  to  them  that  there's different  circumstances  for  everybody that  can  affect  our  grades. Maybe  you're  not  a  test  taker, Maybe  you  have  to  go home  every  other  week because  you  have  family  obligations. Maybe  you  have  to  go  to  therapy  every  week. And  so  that  takes  out  of  your  time  of  going  to  class, you  fall  a  little  bit  behind. And  if  that  affects  your  grades, that  doesn't  mean  that  you  won't  be  able  to get  another  degree  after  that. That  was  something  that  was  a  little  bit  different. And  then  just  a  couple  of  letters  of  recommendations  were really  important  at  all  the  places  that  I  applied. So  making  sure  you have  people  that  you  can  get those  from  and  that  in  your  undergrad, you  build  relationships  with  teachers  or  your  counselors, people  who  would  be  willing to  write  those  letters  for  you  when  you  need  them. Hm,  yeah.  Speaking  of  that, that's  like  one  of  those  questions about  professional  network. Do  you  feel  like  you  felt  equipped  to  do  the  shift  from one  program  to  the  other  with  your  professional  network? That  what  does  that  look  like? Yeah.  I  think  at  U  M  R  like  I  said  before, the  class  size  being  so  small, it  gives  you  that  time  to  become closer  with  your  teachers, with  your  counselors,  with other  medical  professionals  that  might  be  involved  at  U, MR.  And  through  that  networking, it  makes  it  really  easy  to get  those  letters  of  recommendation. Yeah.  Mm  hmm. Absolutely.  Absolutely.  And  then  too, when  you  do  seek  out  like  hey, like  tell  me  a  little  bit  more  about  this  field or  what's  some  guidance  on  making  this  decision? You  have  some  trusted  individuals  in your  corner  who  can  help  you  make  those  decisions. Yeah,  that's  a  big  part  too, and  I'm  learning  that  now  in my  professional  life  as  well  at  work, if  I'm  looking  at different  companies  and  I  want  to  learn  more  about  them, or  trying  to  find  places to  recommend  to  clients  for  referrals,  things  like  that, that  I  build  relationships with  my  coworkers  so  I  can  trust the  information  that  they're  giving  and  know  that I'm  going  to  steer  my  clients  in  the  right  direction. That  was  another  part  of  you  mark  that  I  really did  enjoy  when  I  got  my  associates. I  didn't  feel  like  I  had a  counselor  that  I  was  close  to  at all  getting  my  masters now  and  the  one  that  I  already  completed. Like  I  have  a  counselor  that  I'm close  with  and  I  did  really  get that  from  you  at  Mar  which  was  really  helpful. Yeah.  Yeah.  I  think even  though  we  didn't  work  long  together, Marco  said  that  you  wanted  to  do  this. I  was  just  like  heck  yeah, like  I  like  Monica's  got  so much  to  share  in  like  especially  your  journey  too. I  just  think  it's  just  like you  stated  it,  it  was  just  like, I  don't  know,  you  had  so  many  ups and  downs  but  just  like  you're  flourishing. I  just  keep  going  back  to  this.  It's  so  great  to  hear. Thank  you  to  Monica  and  Grace  for an  insightful  and  introspective  conversation. And  thank  you  for  listening  to  Beyond  the  Nest. Mar's  alumni  podcast. Beyond  the  Nest  is  produced  by  UMR  Alumni  Relations and  edited  by  Marshall  Saunders with  Minnesota  Podcasting. We  will  be  back  in  the  fall  for an  all  new  season  of  Beyond  the  Nest, filled  with  alumni  stories  and perspectives  from  those  solving the  grand  health  challenges  of the  21st  century  until  then  total.