Welcome  to  Beyond  the  Ness  University  of Minnesota,  Rochester's  alumni  podcast. I'm  Marco  Lands,  Umar, Director  of  Alumni  Development  Relationships. Today  we  hear  from  2016  graduate, Dr.  A  Ali,  as  she  chats  with her  student  success  coach,  Jen  Hook. The  two  talk  about  discovering  UMR, the  importance  of  mentorship, the  experience  of  medical  school, and  advice  for  students  pursuing  medicine. Following  her  time  at  UMR,  Dr. Le  completed  a  gap  year  as a  post  back  research  scientist  at  Mayo  Clinic, graduated  from  the  University of  Minnesota  Medical  School, and  is  now  an  Otolaryngology  head  and neck  surgery  resident  at the  Mayo  Clinic  in  Rochester,  Minnesota. What  have  you  been  doing  since  you  graduated  in  2016? Yeah.  So  I  did a  gap  year  for  a  year after  I  graduated  and  did  research  during  that  year. And  then  I  went  to  University of  Minnesota  and  the  Twin  Cities. The  medical  school  up  there  spent  four  years  up  there, and  then  missed  Rochester  too. Came  back,  so  now  I'm  an  intern in  the  Otolaryngology  Hedex  Surgery  department. It's  just  a  fancy  name  for  ear, nose,  and  throat  doctors. So  that's  what  I'm  doing  right  now. You  said  it  just  so  nicely. Just  that's  really,  yeah, You  practice  saying  that  word  a  few  times  now. You  interview  at  all  these  places  and have  to  tell  them  why  you  want  to  be  one  of  them. You  have  to  know  the  name,  you  figure  it  out. Exactly.  I  love  that  kind  quick  overview. Let's  maybe  jump  back  in  time  because  long  ago  you were  a  high  school  student  and  you decided  to  come  to  UMR. Walk  me  through  that  choice  and  that  decision, like  how  did  you  end  up  at the  University  of  Meta  Rochester? Yeah.  I  grew  up  in  Rochester  and  had  just  heard  about this  new  college  that  was  starting  out  and  was probably  three  years  in  when  I was  like  considering  going  to  Mr. I  think  I  told  you  this  story,  Jen, But  it  was  a  really  funny  story because  my  mom  told  me  there  was a  university  and  I  was  like,  no,  there  isn't  one. You  can't  be  I  thought  she was  just  trying  to  coax  me  into  staying  in  Rochester. So  I  did  a  little  bit  of research  and  quickly  learned  that this  was  a  health  science  school  at  the  time. I  wanted  to  do  something  in  medicine,  in  health  science. And  I  didn't  really,  for  me, I  wanted  to  be  at  a  place  where  I  felt  like the  school  and  the  professors really  wanted  to  support  my  pathway. Regardless  of  where  I  ended  up, I  was  looking  really  for  good  education  and  support  in being  able  to  pursue whatever  avenue  I  found  myself  interested  in. Then  of  course,  there's  the  attraction of  Mayo  Clinic  and  doing research  for  me  was another  thing  that  really  sold  me  into  staying. But  honestly  it  was  the  people  like  I  came  and  did, I  don't  remember  what  it's  called  anymore, but  when  you  come  and  you  visit  the  school and  meet  some  of  the  professors  and  students, and  I  just  felt  like  people  were  really  supported  at  UMR. There  was  something  ask  whatever  questions  center. I  don't  remember  what  it's  called  more. Just  as  just  as  you  were  aware. I  spent  a  lot  of  time  there. I  think  for  me  that  sold me  as  a  high  schooler  coming  to  Oh,  yeah. No.  I  was  just  going  to  say  if  you  could  tell  us a  little  bit  about  maybe  some  of  what you  consider  the  most  impactful experiences  that  you  had  while  you  were  a  student  at  U. Yeah,  think  the  academic  rigor of  just  made  me  a  more  confident  student coming  in  from  high  school  perception  that  I  wasn't  like a  good  test  taker  and was  an  average  student,  I  think  I  really  was. But  coming  to  Mar, I  felt  like  my  professors  really  pushed me  and  challenged  me  to  work  harder, study  better,  study  smarter. I  think  that  people  really taught  me  how  to  thrive  as  a  student. I  think  the  Just  As  Center  was really  a  big  part  of  that  because  I  felt like  people  were  open  to  helping me  figure  out  what  I  knew  and  what  I  didn't  know. Instead  of  just  saying  too  bad, go  learn  this  lecture,  come  back. I  think  learning  how  to  deal, how  to  thrive  in  Aca, academically  rigorous  place, the  biggest  things  I  took  away  from  UMR. Then  the  other  thing  for  me  was just  didn't  know  I  was  interested  in  research, opened  that  opportunity  for  me  to  find  people  to work  with  at  Mayo  through the  work  study  process  and some  research  projects  that  I  did  with  some  of the  professors  there  that  really opened  up  my  academic  career  for  me. Those  are  really  the  two  big  highlights I  take  away  from  my  time  at UMR  then  the  people  I  loved  being  your  student. I  know  that  there  was  a  lot  of  tears  in  your  office, but  I  think  it  was  like growing  pains  and  I  felt like  there  was  plenty  of  support  in. Process  for  people  to  both  be  like a  good  listening  ear but  also  like  objectively  tell  me  like, yeah,  you  can  do  this  or  no,  you  should  reconsider  this. And  so  I  felt  like  there was  a  really  good  balance  in  that. I  recall  you  being  in my  office  your  first  year  and  you're  like, I  don't  want  to  use  the  word  easy, but  so  far  it's  okay. And  then  I  remember  in  sophomore  year  you  saying, okay,  it's  hard  now. Yeah.  Yeah,  I  did  a  lot  of  crying  sophomore  year, but  I'm  glad  to  hear  that  you felt  that  there  was  support  in place  to  help  you  because my  guess  is  it  got  harder  in  medical  school. That's  accurate,  yes. And  honestly,  I  think  that, like  I  learned  from Omar  that  it's  really  about  like  putting  in  the  work, putting  in  the  time,  and  that  nothing really  was  beyond  like  my  understanding. It  just  meant  that  I  just  needed  to find  a  person  who  could  explain  it  to  me  better. Something  that  could  teach  it  to  me better  and  then  put  in  the  work. And  I  think  the  just  Ask  center  for  me  really did  that  and  taught  me  those  skills. I  love  how  you  describe  those  relationships and  how  important  those  relationships were  in  your  learning. You  had  a  lot  of  mentors, I  think,  throughout  your  undergraduate  career. I'm  just  curious  if  you  can  speak  a  little  bit to  the  power  of  mentors  in  your  life, both  when  you  were  an  undergrad, but  how  you've  built a  professional  network  now  that  you  have  gone  through medical  school  and  in your  residency  experience now,  what  does  that  feel  like  to  you? Yeah,  I'm  a  true  believer  in  mentorship. I  think  that  mentorship  really  opens up  doors  that  you  didn't  even  know  existed. I  learned  how  to  build  really  good  mentors  at  Mar because  I  felt  that  there's  a  tiered  way. I  think  about  mentors, there's  people  who  are  a  year  or  two  ahead  of  you, who  are  going  through  the  same  thing  as  you  are  and can  tell  you  how  to  get  through  your  day  to  day  stuff. So  those  are  like  your  peer  mentors. There's  people  who  in  the  next  stage, like  the  people  who  are  in  med  school  or  in grad  school  that  you  can  talk  to, to  figure  out  how to  figure  out  how  to  get  to  your  next  step. Then  there  are  people  who  are like  your  big  picture  mentors, who  help  you  figure  out  where  your  roadblocks  are, what  skills  you  need  to  get  to  the  next  stage. I  felt  that,  at,  um,  I  was  able  to  learn  that. One,  I  needed  all  those  types  of  mentors, but  two,  have  access  to  them. My  classmates  and  the  people, the  class  years  that  are  above me  were  really  great  mentors  to  me in  terms  of  the  TA's, were  really  good  at  like  telling you  this  is  what  you  need  to  do  to  sight  for this  class  is  what  you  need  to  do  to  succeed,  et  cetera. And  then  there  was  you  who  I  could  come  to and  be  like  I  need  to  go  to  med  school, I  need  to  do  this,  how  do  I  get  there? And  you  did  a  really  good  job  of  just  helping me  figure  out  what is  the  big  picture  and  how  do  I  get  there. Then  I  had  amazing  professors  like  Dr. Cosco  and  Dr.  Prat  Recina, who  really  helped  me  from a  big  picture  understand  like  what  are  your  goals? Where  do  you  want  to  go?  How  can  we  help  you  get  there? When  I  went  to  med  school, I  like  frantically  tried  to  build  a  similar  network. And  I  think  that  because  it  was a  bigger  school,  was  a  little  bit  harder. But  eventually  with  the  skills  that  I  had  learned, I  was  able  to  do  to  kind  of  build  a  similar  structure. That's  kind  of  one  of  the  biggest  lessons  I've  taken  away from  mentorship  is  just  you  have to  ask  you  to  take  the  courage to  ask  people  and  tell  them  what  you're  struggling  with, where  you  want  to  go,  and  let  them  help  you. Does  that  exist  in  your  world  now  as  a  medical  resident? I  mean,  you're  in  the  very  interesting  place,  right? Postal.  But  still  in  training. Do  you  feel  like  you  have  that  mentorship  support now  as  a  resident?  Yeah. Yeah,  I'm  pretty  early. So  the  programs  five  years  start to  find  people  who  can  fit  into  those  pieces. Of  course,  like  my  co  residents  are really  great  and  the  people who  I  look  to  to  be  like  how  do  I get  through  the  day  to  day  things  now? Then  there  are  some  faculty  members in  our  program  who  are  fantastic, who  I  gravitate  towards and  are  very  open  to  mentoring  me. But  I  think  at  the  beginning  of  every  stage, you're  rebuilding  that  network. But  I  have  no  doubt that  I'll  find  those  people  and  be  able to  be  able  to  get  to  the  next  step. You  have  to  continue  to  build  those  other  relationships you  had  in  the  past  too  because those  people  still  serve  a  purpose, can  still  be  vents  even  if  you  pass  that  stage. Oh,  that's  beautiful. Join  Umar  and  Mayo  Clinic  on  Tuesday, October  18  for  the  next  installment  of Current  Center  connects  a  partnership  highlighting the  research  of  the  Robert  D.  Patricia  E.  Kern  Center  for the  Science  of  Healthcare  Delivery  featuring University  of  Minnesota  alumni  at  the  current  center, our  panel  will  include  Mayo  Clinic  professors Molly  Jeffrey,  Sean  Pilon, and  Jennifer  Ridgeway,  as  well  as  2018 Marlo  and  Mayo  Clinic  Phd  candidate,  Muhammad  Dani. The  group  will  discuss  their  wide ranging  field  of  work  as  well  as how  they  navigated  a  career  in healthcare  research  and  discovery. The  event  will  be  held  on  campus  in  room  414. The  fourth  floor  of  University square  beginning  at  05:00  P.M.  To  register, please  visit  Zacks  Kern  Center. Yeah,  I  definitely  like  community  engagement and  I  think  in a  bigger  picture  of  social  justice is  a  big  part  of  my  interests. Then  I  learned  very  quickly  that  I  love  research and  really  get  really  nerdy  about  small, intricate  pathways  and  clinical  research  in  med  school, especially  in  the  first  two  years. I  found  it  a  little  bit  hard  to maintain  both  of  those  two  things  at  the  same  time. With  med  school  going  on, I  think  my  community  engagement  interests took  a  little  bit  of  a  back  seat. I  was  still  engaged  in  mentorship of  underrepresented  minorities  and  things  like  that. But  like  being  out  in the  community  had  to  wait  a  little  bit. But  when  I  was doing  my  third  and  fourth  year  of  medical  school, honestly  those  experiences  that  I  had  with community  engagement  made my  patient  interactions  more  enriching. Every  once  in  a  while  there'd  be a  Somali  auntie  who  would  be  like, wait,  you're  like  a  medical  student. A  young  Somali  girl  who's  like,  wait, you're  going  to  be  a  Dr.  for  me  it  was  just so  fulfilling  to  see  that  and  to even  if  I  wasn't  actively  out  in  the  community  in a  way  where  it's  like  in a  free  clinic  or  things  like  that, I  was  still  part  of  the  community. I  was  still  making  a  difference  by just  existing  in  that  space. Then  I  tried  really  hard  to  maintain  my  relationship  with the  Somali  Health  Advisory  Committee which  I  had  built  an  undergrad, See  if  there  was  ways  that  I  could  help. I  continued  some  of  my  health  disparities research  as  well  into  medical  school. Then  when  I  was  deciding  on  what  I  wanted  to do  in  my  specialty, that  was  like  where  it  felt  like  I  had  to  choose. Because  I  think  surgery  is  a,  I  wouldn't  say  hard, but  I  think  have  to  be  a  little  bit  more  innovative  to fit  community  engagement  into  a  surgical  career. I  think  that,  yeah, I  think  surgeons  and  people  in  general  are now  more  open  to  trying  to  implement  that. I  think  the  easiest  way  that  I  saw community  engagement  fitting  into  my  surgical  career  was picking  a  specialty  where  I  felt  like  we  still served  as  a  primary  care  environment, but  also  we  got  to  do  a  lot  of  surgery. I  felt  like  things  like  urology, E  and  T,  those  specialties  would  like  0. B  would  be  a  little  bit  easier  to build  those  experiences  in,  within  a  career, I  just  fell  in  love  with  E  and  T  and felt  that  if  and  when  I do  get  the  chance  to  do community  engagement  in  E  and  T,  it's  really  easy. With  oral  health  screenings  And  a  cancer  screening.  Yeah. One  of  the  main  reasons,  of  course, I  love  Rochester  and  I  think Mayo  Clinic  is  an  amazing  place  to  train. But  one  of  the  main  things  I  love about  our  program  is  one  of our  attendees  is  working  on a  community  health  clinic  that  she  just  got  funded  for, for  oral  cancer  screenings and  pack  cancer  screenings  within  the  community. That's  something  that  I'm,  I  think one  of  the  reasons  why  I  picked  E  and  T  was  mainly because  I  felt  like  it  was  easier to  do  community  engagement. And  of  course,  you  can  always  do  research  in  medicine. That  was  easy.  Yeah,  that  was  an  easy  one. I  came  to  medical  school  thinking  I  was going  to  be  a  primary  care  Dr.  mainly  because  I thought  the  best  way  to  serve the  community  was  in primary  care  to  be  out  in  the  front  lines. When  I  was  in  medical  school, I  felt  like  I  just  gravitated towards  the  way  surgeons  fixed  problems. For  me,  it  was  hard  for  me  to grasp  long  term  benefit of  someone  in  terms  of the  work  that  we  were  doing  every  day. If  somebody  came  in  and  their  blood  pressure  was still  uncontrolled,  the  fifth, sixth  time  that  you're  seeing  them, I  just  felt  defeated  and  I  didn't feel  like  I  was  like  doing  something  meaningful. As  horrible  as  that  sounds, I  felt  that  there  was  something definitive  about  seeing  someone  saying, this  is  your  problem,  this  is  what  I  can  do  about  it, this  is  our  plan. I  think  once  I  realized  that that  was  like  how  I  wanted  to  help  people, then  I  started  searching  in  surgery, what  the  specialties  were. Something  about  E  and  T  for  me. And  T,  I  think  allows  you  to  see patients  when  they're  brand  new. Like  few  days  old. All  the  way  to  when  someone's  dying. Because  we  deal  with  the  airway,  with  the  ears, everything  from  they  say  the  pleura  to  the  dura, clavicles  to  the  brain. We  just  don't  do  anything  with  neurosurgery. But  I  felt  like  I  wasn't  giving up  a  set  of  patients  by  picking  E  and  T, for  example,  if  you  picked  urology, it's  a  little  bit  harder  to  serve  women, but  you  can  still  do  that. Or  if  you  picked  surgery, you  were  only  dealing  with  children. Where  I In  E  and  T,  I  was  dealing  with  everyone  and people  could  come  with  me  with a  simple  thing  as  like,  oh, I  have  this  cough  and  I  can't  get  it  to  go  away  to,  oh, I  have  stage  four  cancer and  you're  well  equipped  to  deal  with  those  things. The  surgeries  and  E  and  T  are just  amazing  and  life  changing. We  can  build  someone  a  new  jaw or  do  facial  plastic  surgery  and  do  a  face  lift, its  do  sinus  surgery  to  help with  skull  based  surgery,  things  like  that. And  I  felt  like  I  wasn't  really  giving  up  any  part  of medicine  by  doing  E  and  T. I  felt  like  I  was  just  sub  specializing. Yeah,  So  that's  from  viewing  your  classmates, this  thing  people  just  figure  out. Right.  Like  I  think  I've  read  like  10%  of students  end  up  doing what  they  think  they're  going  to  do. You  figure  it  out, rotations,  is  that  what  the  process  was  like  for  you? I  think  the  thing that  makes  a  big  difference  is  mentorship. I  was,  again,  very  lucky, So  I  had  this  general  surgeon  who  was a  transplant  surgeon  who  was  an  amazing  mentor  to  me. But  I  could  not  see  myself  doing  what  he  did. I  was  like,  I  need  to  be around  my  family  and  I  can't  work  like  this  all  the  time. It's  really  cool  what  you  do. I  searched  out  different and  felt  that  the  E  and T  department  was  just  more  welcoming, believed  in  what  I  wanted  for  my  career  to  look  like, and  felt  like  that  was  needed  an  ENT, and  felt  like  I  could  contribute  to  the  specialty. I  think  that  that  really  impacts  people's  decisions  way more  than  just  what  they're  interested  in. I  think  a  lot  of  people  who  go  into  medical  school  have very  broad  interests  and  a  lot  of us  can  be  pretty  much  anything. The  people  who  and  early on  really  have  a  huge  impact  on  where  you  end  up. I  think  that  membership  really  has  a  big  impact. But  again,  if  you  hate  the  OR  it  doesn't matter  if  your  mentor  is  fantastic,  you  just  hate  it. It's  the  same  thing  if  you  can't  be  in clinic  every  day  for  the  rest  of  your  life, you  try  to  figure  that  out. Yeah,  that's  great  advice. Umr  would  like  to  hear  from  you. Please  visit  this  episode. Show  notes  for  how  to  connect  and  share  your  UMR  journey. Now,  back  to  Dr.  Ali  and  Jen, as  they  talk  about  advice  for  students interested  in  pursuing  medicine. The  journey  to  medicine  is  long.  We  know  that,  right? And  I  think  especially  as  undergrads, it  feels  like  overwhelmingly  long. Looking  back  your  younger  self, what  advice  do  you  think  you  would give  yourself  as  you  started this  premed  journey  that  started  a  Yeah. I  would  say  that  anything  is  possible. I  think  I've  proved  that  to  myself in  the  ten  years  it's  taken  me  to  get  here  now. I  had  a  lot  of  self  doubt  and  a  lot  of imposture  syndrome  all  throughout  my  training. And  I  think  at  times,  even  as  a  newbie  an  ENT. But  I  think  that  with  ample of  time  and  really  good  work  ethic and  just  like  sometimes  good  mentors  and  luck, you  can  really  get  to  where  you  want  to  be. I  think  persistence  is  something  that is  should  not  be  underrated. For  example,  like  I  remember  when I  was  considering  applying  to med  school  during  my  third  year, going  into  my  fourth  year, and  I  just  didn't  have  the  M  Cat  scores. We  had  this  conversation  where  it  was  like, should  you  do  D  0  or  should you  do  M  D  and  things  like  that. I  think  that  from  that  experience, I  had  learned  that  sometimes. And  you  said  this  to  me  where  you  were  like, you  just  need  more  time. An  extra  year  can  make  a  big  difference  for you  At  that  time  I  was  like,  no,  I  can't. I  don't  have  an  extra  year  in  me. But  a  year  is  really  nothing  in  the  grand  scheme  of things  and  scheme  of  your  goals  and  your  careers. And  if  it  takes you  a  year  to  get  to  where  you  want  to  go, then  take  the  year  just I  think  you  had  to  have  to  be  a  little  bit headstrong  and  persist  but also  like  asking  people  for  help. I  think  those  two  things  have  really  helped  me  get  a lot  further  than  I  had  ever  anticipated. Yeah,  I'm  so  glad  you  brought  I  have  very  vivid  memories. Conversation.  You're  like,  I  can't  take  more  time. And  then  by  the  end  of  the  appointment  you were  I'm  going  to  take  more  time. Arrived  at  this  moment,  I think  that  decision  of  taking  that  gap  year, that  growth  year,  is  something  that  a  lot  of students  struggle  with  in  their  premed  journey. And,  you  know,  like ultimately  you  decided  to  take  it.  What  do  you  think? That  I'm  totally  coming  out  with  my  bias  here. I'm  a  big  fan  of  the  extra  year,  right? Or  maybe  for  some  folks. What  do  you  think  for  you  that that  extra  year  gave  you  the  time  to  do?  Yeah. I  look  fondly  at  that  year.  I  loved  that  year. In  that  time  I  did  research and  still  worked  on  my  application, and  I  felt  like  I  had a  much  stronger  application  from  that  experience. Something  about  like  an  extra  year  to  be  able  to really  sit  down  and  really  think about  why  are  you  doing  this  like. Really  good  job  and  live, you  know,  semi  easier  life. You  know,  at  least  for  the  next  like ten  years  while  I'm  in  training. If  I  had  like  picked  something else  and  still  be  fulfilled. And  I  think  that  there  are  options  out  there. When  I  was  a  type  of  student  who  was  very much  like  I  only  have  this  one focus  and  I'm  only  going  that  way. And  I  think  the  year  really  forced  me  to  sit down  and  really  think  about is  this  like  what  I  want  to  do? What  is  that  going  to  mean  for  me  in  the  future? I  also  in  that  time, like  had  my  son  and  was  like a  mom  for  a  year  out  at  home. It  was  amazing.  I  loved that  year  when  I see  people  with  like  really  amazing  skills, you  meet  really  talented  people  in  medicine. And  some  of  my  peers  took  234  years to  travel  the  world  or  get  a  master's  in  something  else. And  those  things  really  come  up  later  on  when  they're thinking  about  how  to  enrich  their  careers. There's  a  lot  of  people  that  I  went  to  school  with  who did  like  narrative  medicine  and  all  these  other  things because  they  were  writers  and  took  time  to foster  that  while  not  in  school. I  think  the  couple  years  in  between  undergrad and  med  school  are  really  years  to  explore. Anything  else  that  you  want  to  do  besides  medicine? I  think  you  come back  to  med  school  just  like  fresher  and  have  a  purpose. It  makes  those  days  a  little  bit  easier. Definitely.  Such  beautiful  advice. Yeah,  I'm  so  glad  you  brought  up your  beautiful  son  who  is  in kindergarten  now.  Yeah.  He's  big. I'm  always  shocked,  like  oh  wow,  you  know  that  word. Do  those  things,  how  does  it  feel  balancing  a  life  As a  mom  and  as  a  very  busy  physician  in  training? I  know  what  it  is,  life  like  for  you. Life  is  busy.  Um,  I have  a  wonderful  family  who  has  really supported  me  in  this  entire  process. When  I  was  in  medical  school, like  I  could  honestly, if  I  needed  to  drop  everything and  do  whatever  I  needed  to  do  for  school, my  family  was  ready  to  do  that  for  me. So  I'm  really  blessed  to  have  them. And  so  they  kind  of  made  that  experience  easier. Now  being  in  Rochester.  That's  what  they  do. You  know,  I'm  like,  okay,  please help  me,  help  me  get  through  this. My  family  also,  I  lost  my  train  of  thought  there. The  thing  I  loved  about  being  a  mom  in medical  school  was  I felt  like  it  gave  me  a  little  bit  more  of a  purpose  than  maybe  some of  my  peers  and  maybe  that's  just  my  bias. I  felt  like  I  connected  with  people  a  little bit  better  mainly  because, for  example,  when  I  was  on  Peds, I  knew  what  it  meant  to  be  those  parents  in  that  space. And  I  was  like,  I  get  it. This  nervous  parent  and  you're  nervous  because  this  is your  kid  and  completely  can  bond  with  you. Might  I  have  one  of  those? Exactly. And  I  was  like,  if  I  was  in  your  shoes  I would  be  even  more  disruptive. I  think  it  just  made  me  a  better  Dr. I  think  it  still  makes  me  a  better  Dr.  going  home  and like  knowing  that  someone is  like  benefiting  from  all  the  work  that  I've  done, the  life  that  he  gets  to  have  is very  different  from  what  I  had. Even  though  I  grew  up very  like  my  parents provided  us  with  everything  that  we  ever  needed. But  I  think  it's  just  still  different. It  just  makes  this  process  more  enriching. Yeah,  yeah.  I  love  that  reflection. Thank  you.  Of  course. I  hope  that  some  of  our  listeners might  be  current  UMR  students  and  I'm  just curious  if  you  have  any  general  advice  for  those especially  that  are  looking  at  applying  to  med  school, have  this  interest  in  medicine. You've  already  provided  us  with some  really  beautiful  advice  about  finding  your  mentors, challenging  yourself,  and  growing. Ally,  is  there  any  other  advice you  might  have  for  those  students? Yeah,  I  would  say  have  fun. I  think  it's  hard  to  beat someone  or  do  better  than  someone  who  loves  what  they  do. I  enjoyed  my  time  at  Omar  as  like  nerdy  as  that  sounds, but  like  I  don't  know, I  felt  like  I  like  thrived  and  blossomed  there. So  I  think  that  people  should  just like  challenge  themselves  but  also  like enjoy  the  process  is  the  same  thing  from  med  school. I  think  it's  possible  for  you  to feel  like  everyone  and everything  is  against  you  and  everything  is  hard. But  I  think  if  you  just  take  a  step  back  and realize  that  you're  living  your  dream, you  get  to  go  to  college  and  you  get  to  study interesting  things  and  learn  things. I  think  it  just  gives  you  a  very  different  perspective and  it  makes  the  learning  process  a  lot  easier, makes  the  experience  a  lot  more  enjoyable. Like  I  love  Omar  and  I  loved  med  school. And  just  like  it  helps  you  keep  going and  you  get  a  lot out  of  the  experiences  if  you're  enjoying  it. Yeah.  Yeah. Thank  you  to  Dr.  Ali  and Jen  for  an  illuminating  conversation and  thank  you  for  listening  to  Beyond the  Nest  Mars  alumni  podcast. Beyond  the  Nest  is  produced  by  UMR  Alumni  Relations and  edited  by  Marsha  Saunders  with  Minnesota  Podcasting. We'll  be  back  next  month  with a  special  state  at  the  campus  episode  featuring UMR  Chancellor  Lori  Carroll  and Rochester  Student  Association President  Patricia  Hernandez. Until  then  too,  Telo