From  University  of  Minnesota,  Rochester  Alumni  Relations. Welcome  to  Beyond  the  Nest. Marco  Lands,  UM  R  Director of  Alumni  Development  Relationships. In  this  episode,  2014  graduate, Gavin  Mark  catches  up  with UMR  Professor  of  Sociology  Molly  Dingell. The  two  chat  about  Gavin's  experience as  an  early  student  of  UMR, building  connections  and  transitioning from  school  into  the  workforce. Currently,  Gavin  works  at  Sanos  Health  where  he performs  site  management  and monitoring  for  clinical  research  projects. What  brought  you  UMR  in  the  first  place? Start  right  at  the  beginning. Yeah.  I  had  only  applied  to  two  colleges. I  actually  applied  to  UMD  and  UMR. And  UMR  was  my  main  choice  because  of the  smaller  class  sizes and  the  access  to  professors  and  everything  else. And  just  because  I  was  new, I  like  the  idea  of  being  one  of  the  pioneering  class, only  the  second  graduating  class. It  was  all  really  exciting  to  me  and  I  got  in and  at  that  time  I  wanted  to  be  go  to  Pre  Med. Just  like  everybody  else  who  first  wants  to  go  to MR.  And  things  went  from  there. Did  it  live  up  to  your  expectations? I  mean,  you  went  in with  this  hope  that  it  was  going  to  be exciting  and  less  access  to professors  and  yeah,  it  certainly  did. I  don't  think  I  could  have graduated  in  four  years  like  I  did  without  any  delays, without  the  support  I  had  at  UMR. Yeah,  I  don't  have  a  single  regret  about  going  there. And  my  experience  there  was  a  Great. Can  you  think  of  specific  examples of  that  support  my  freshman  year? I  did  Okay.  In  school  in  my  sophomore  year. My  first  semester  did. Okay.  Second  semester  started  to  fall  off. Junior  year  had  another  first  semester, and  then  the  second  semester  came,  like, all  right,  I  really  need  to  buckle  down. I  need  to  retake  anatomy  and  physiology, I  need  to  retake  organic  chemistry,  general  chemistry. And  I  need  to  take  organic  chemistry  too. Because  I  had  wanted  to  switch  and  be  on the  physician  assistant  career  path  field at  that  point.  Buckled  down. I  got  involved  in  the  Rochester  Student  Association. I  reto  all  those  classes and  I  got  a  significantly better  degrade  than  I  had  been  had  done  prior. And  they're  really  difficult  the first  time  around  because  I  didn't  use  the  support, I  didn't  use  the  options  that  we  had  available. And  then  the  second  time  around, I  was  there  all  the  time  working  with  the  professors, drawing  stuff  out  on  the  whiteboards and  making  a  lot  of  flashcards, and  I  made  it  through  it. I  ended  up  graduating  with  a  decent  GPA. And  I  didn't  end  up going  into  the  becoming  a  Physician's  assistant. But  I'm  very  happy  with  my  career  where  I  am  now. It  sounds  like  it  was that  connection  with  professors  and the  ability  to  really  sit  down  with  them. Something  that  over  the  challenging  time that  you  had  as  a  student? Yeah,  exactly. Yeah.  Because  those  are  the  things that  all  students  are  going  to  hit  tough  spots. I  think  a  lot  of  it  is  about  what  support  do you  have  along  the  way  to  help  you  get through  that,  help  you  make  a  shift? You  said  you  started  out  wanting  to  go  to  med  school, and  then  you  shifted  that  a  little  bit. Maybe  you  could  talk  a  little  bit  about  where  are  you now  we  can  follow  up  with? How  did  you  move  from  wanting to  go  to  med  school  to  where  you  edged  up? Yeah.  That  was  another  probably  benefit  of  you,  Mark. I  was  able  to  mold my  after  school  plan  with  the  way  I  was  changing. They  were  able  to  adapt  it  really  well. I  like  start  off  pre  med. That's  how  I  set  up  my  classes and  then  it  became  public  health. I  talked  to  my  advisor. I  like,  okay,  we'll  do  these  classes  for  public  health. And  then  it  was  physicians  assistants,  like  okay, we'll  change  these  classes,  do  all  these, you'll  be  able  to  graduate  before we  go  on  physicist  school. That  all  then  after  I  graduated  from  UMR, I  think  I  would  have  had  to  retake  a  physics  class to  be  able  to  apply  for  Physicians  assistant  school, and  I  was  planning  on  doing  that. But  in  the  meantime,  I  got  a  job  at a  company  called  Ofsted  Associates doing  translational  Research  with Evan  Doyle  and  other  UMR  Alumn. I  actually  helped  me  get  the  job  there. I  ended  up  working  there  for  a  year  and  then  after  that, I  ended  up  getting  just  fully embraced  the  research  idea  for career  and  I  got  into the  clinical  research  side  of  things  working. They're  called  Minnesota  Gastrology, but  now  they're  called  Mini  Digestive  Health. So  I  was  doing  their regulatory  I  was  a  regulatory  specialist  for  them, for  their  clinical  research  department, making  sure  everybody  was  trained, making  sure  the  documents  are  signed, right,  uploading  them  to the  correct  portals  and  stuff  like  that. And  then  became  an  analyst  at  Mini. And  I  did  that  for  a  year  and then  I  decided  didn't  like  that. Then  I  went  back  to  clinical  research with  Clinical  Research  Coordinator. Instead  of  just  doing  that  regulatory, I  was  recruiting  patients  and consenting  patients  and  collecting  data, putting  the  data  into  the  electronic data  capture  system  for  the  sponsor. And  working  with  the  monitors or  people  who  work  for  the  sponsor  that  come  to  the  site. And  make  sure  that the  site  is  doing  everything  correctly. So  that  if  the  FDA  comes that  we're  not  going  to  get  in  trouble, pass  inspection,  and  the  drug will  ultimately  get  approved. I  was  doing  all  that  for  GI  studies. I  was  doing  that  for  about  two  years. I  really  wanted  to  be  work as  a  monitor  what  I  was  talking  about. I've  always  had  a  passion  for  oncology because  there's  a  history  of  cancer  in  my  family. I  started  applying  at clinical  research  organizations  which are  middleman  for  pharmaceutical  companies who  handle  the  CRA's. They  hire  CRA's  and  content  companies. I  got  hired  by  a  company  called  Ba. I  was  working  as a  CRA  associate  monitor  for  a  company  called  Roche. I  just  worked  for  Roche  and  I worked  on  lung  cancer  studies  and  ovarian  cancer  study. And  then  I  did  that  for  a  year  and  then  got recruited  off  linked  in  by  a  company  called  Sinis  CRO. Where  now  I'm  just  working  for  a  company  called  Abby. And  I'm  working  with  the  ovarian  cancer  study. Breast  cancer  study.  And  I'm  hoping you  on  another  lung  cancer  study  soon. Close.  Yeah,  that's  where  I  am  beyond  the  Nas. We'd  like  to  hear  from  you.  Check  out this  episode's  show  notes  for  how  to  get  in touch  and  share  your  UMR  journey. Now  let's  get  back  to  the  conversation  as  Gavin  talks about  how  to  build  connection and  learning  to  adapt  to  change. What's  a  day  like  for  you? I  have  my  e  mail  open. I'm  triaging  concerns  from  the  site  as  they  come  up. Like,  do  they  have  questions  about  the  protocol, what  kind  of  visits  they  need  to  do? I'm  following  up  with  that. Visits  are  conducted  on  time. There's  a  trial  master  file,  the  sponsor  maintains. I  have  to  make  sure  that  we  have all  the  correct  regulatory  documents  filed  in  there. When  the  sites  enter  data into  the  electronic  data  capture  system, I  review  it  and  make  sure  that it  at  least  passes  the  smell  test. Like  they  did  the  visit  on  time, They  they  did  all  the right  procedures  they're  supposed  to  do. And  then  eventually  I'll  actually  go  on  site, like  next  week  I'm  flying  out  to  Buffalo, New  York  to  go  on  site  and actually  look  at  their  paperwork  and make  sure  it  matches  what's  in  the  system. And  make  sure  that  the  regulatory  and  training is  all  up  to  date. And  their  copies  of  the  binders. Yeah,  I'm  working  on  behalf  of  the  sponsor to  make  sure  that  the  site  is inspection  ready  if  the  FDA  ever  comes, because  we  want  these  drugs  to  get  to  market. What's  the  best  part  about your  job?  Who  do  you  like  about  it? I  really  enjoy  working  with  the  sites. I  like  developing  relationships  with the  principal  investigators  and the  coordinators  because  I  can  identify  with  them. Since  I  also  worked  on  the  site  side, I  understand  the  struggles  they're  going  through. Then  the  other  side  of  it  is  just  some  of  the  drugs  that we're  developing  with  and  I'm working  with  are  just  really  fascinating. The  stuff  they're  doing  advancing in  the  oncology  field  right  now, You  get  to  really  see  how  the  drugs  are  developed, get  a  full  copy  of  the  protocol, you  can  read  method  of  action,  why  it  works. The  supporting  studies  you get  to  work  with  on  the  sponsor  side to  working  with  medical Dr.  on  staff  who  answers  questions  is  basically just  an  expert  on the  study  and  on  the  drug  and  everything  else. It's  really  interesting,  so many  students  come  in  and  they  know  they  like health  and  they  know  that  they want  to  do  something  that's going  to  help  people  or  something  along  those  lines. They  think,  okay,  I  need  to  be  a  Dr.  to  do  that, it's  really  fun  to  see  students  go  through this  path  and  have  it  have  the  world  open  up  to  them. Even  the  world  of  health,  where  there's so  many  different  ways  that  you  can help  people  within  health. And  it's  not  a  Dr.  like. Yeah,  exactly. Bringing  these  new  drugs  to  market. Like  some  of  these  new  drugs  are  so incredible  and  they  help so  many  people  and  they  saved  so  many  lives. That's  like  there's  this  whole  world  of  stuff that  has  to  happen  before  they  can  actually  get  approved, before  we  actually  know  they  work  and  they're  safe. And  it's  just  a  pathway  that  I  think  a  lot of  18  year  olds like  don't  even  think  about  or  don't  even  like. Totally. Yeah. It  can  be  like  super  rewarding  and interesting  and  extremely  useful. Yeah,  it  is.  And  that's  another  thing  that's, that  I  love  about  my  job. I'm  on  the  breast  cancer  study. After  patients  are  done, after  they're  done  receiving active  treatment  and  they  go  into  admission, we're  just  falling  them  for  survival  check  in. Are  you  still  okay?  These  are patients  with  a  really  serious  cancer  diagnosis  that are  living  years  beyond  when  they probably  would  have  been  able  to  had they  not  had  the  study  drug. It's  really  great  to  see  such a  valuable  thing  to  be  doing. Yeah.  Are  there  ways  in  which a  professional  network  helped  you  get  to  where  you  are? Just  at  any  stage,  whether  that  was  a  UMR  or  after  UMR, how  did  you  build  that  or  how  did you  create  that  or  how  did  that  develop  for  you? Yeah.  Like  I  mentioned, my  first  job  at Offset  Associates  doing  the  translational  research  I got  because  former  classmate at  UMR  was  working  there  as  well. And  he  put  in  reference  for  me, that  was  my  first  job  with  its  job  I  just  made. I  think  it's  really  important  to  not  burn bridges  if  your  job  requests  that you  put  in  a  four  week  notice  before  you try  your  best  to  put  in  that  two  to  four  week  notice, you  don't  want  to  leave  right  away  because you  might  want  your  old  manager's  reference  some  day, and  I've  used  my  manager's  reference. Then  there's  also  different  professional  groups. I  haven't  gotten  a  job. I  worked  with  ACRP  for  a  little  while, they're  the  American  Academy  of  Research  Professionals. I  was  with  them  for  a  while and  I  didn't  really  get  a  job  through  them. But  I  did  gain skills  and  helped  me  learn  the  industry  better. Because  I  was  working  with  people who  worked  in  some  work, some  work  for  sites  and  you  get  to see  how  different  sites  do  different  things. That  helped  me  build  skills. When  I  left  QV  working  there  for a  year  and  then  I  went  to Sino  like  was  really  difficult  for  me, I  didn't  really  want  to  leave  but  I  was  put  in  a  position where  I  couldn't  turn  down  the  job. My  manager  there  at  QV  totally  understood. And  she  basically  said,  if  you ever  are  in  the  market  again, reach  out  to  me,  I  might  have  something  for  you. It's  just  nice  to  keep  those  concessions good  to have  a  good  relationship  with  everybody  you  work  with. You  never  know  when  you  might  need  their  help. Yeah,  I  think  that's  really  good  advice. It's  interesting  how  paths intersect  differently  with  different  people as  we  move  through  our  lives. And  you  never  know  who  this  person  that  you  met  a  long time  ago  might  suddenly  have an  opportunity  or  be  useful  for  you  in  some  way. Or  just  be  able  to  help  you  make  a  connection? Yeah,  exactly.  Yeah,  I  think  that's  really  true. What  would  you  tell  if  their  current  students  who  are worried  that  they're  not  building a  professional  network  fast enough  or  something  like  that, what  would  you  tell  students  who  are  worried  that  maybe they  aren't  building  enough  connections  at  UMR? I  guess  I'd  tell  them  to  try  to  be  flexible. Try  to  find  like  if  you  want  to  go  into  a  certain  field, try  to  find  that  professional  organization  that  like, it  seems  like  every  career on  the  planet  Earth  has some  sort  of  organization  attached  to  it, especially  now  during  the  pandemic. Like  a  lot  of  them  are  on  line  through  zoom  meetings. Like  usually  it  seems  a  professional  organization, they'll  have  a  price  to attend  to  the  event  for  the  member, or  they'll  have  a  price  to  attend. If  you're  not  a  member,  you  can  still  go  to  an  event, pay  a  little  extra,  and  then  meet  with  people. And  if  you'd  like  it,  you  can  decide  to  get  a  membership. But  if  you  don't  like,  at  least  you  got the  experience  and  you  got  to  meet  people. I  also  think  shadowing  is a  very  valuable  experience working  with  people  in  your  current  job. How  I  wanted  to  become a  monitor  was  talking  to  monitors  that  came  to the  research  site  when I  was  working  as  a  coordinator and  some  monitors  are  coming. And  I  talked  to  them  and  asked  them about  their  job  and  what  it  was  like just  make  conversations  with people  and  learn  about the  different  things  people  are  doing. You  might  end  up  making  connection  with the  field  that  you  didn't even  know  you  wanted  to  go  into. Yeah,  absolutely. It  sounds  like  you made  a  lot  of  these  connections  actually, after  you  talked  a  little  bit about  how  you  made  this  first  step, one  of  your  friends  was  a  reference  for  you, but  then  it  seems  like  you  built  a  lot of  those  connections  actually  after  you  left  UMR. Yeah,  exactly. Yeah,  I  felt  like I  learned  skills  on  building  connections  in  UMR, but  I  didn't  start  making  connections until  I  started  working  in  the  field. I  wanted  to  go  into  a  link. Research  is  interesting  field, it's  hard  to  break  into  it  first. So  once  you're  into  it,  there's a  lot  of  possibilities  for  you. What  UMR  experiences  helped  shape  your  journey. Can  you  think  of  other  specific Experiences  you  had  here  that  were important  to  where  you  ended  up. I  was  reviewing  my  old  Capstone  website, which  is  still  on  Wick. Somehow  I  found  it,  my  e  mail. Great.  Yeah,  I  was  looking  back  and my  whole  senior  years basically  wrapped  around  research,  even  back  then. It  wasn't  clinical  research, but  I  did  a  directed  research  project  with  you. We  were  working  on  a  paper  called The  Effect  of  Media  on  Genetic  Comprehension. That  was  really  great  experience. I  learned  about  how  to  collect  data, how  the  Institutional  Review  Board  process  works, and  really  learning  how  a  study  is conducted  on  the  university  side and  the  complexities  of  it. I  also  worked  with  Mayo  Clinic  and ASO  Obesity  Solutions  where we  were  working  on  two  different  projects. One  have  an  active  curriculum  study  where  we're signing  up  classrooms  and  having the  kids  like  a  fit  bit  now, but  they  were  called  Can devices  with  their  accelerometers. Basically  to  track  activity  throughout the  day  and  try  to  find  ways  to  keep kids  more  active  and  more  data collecting  that  stage  to  figure out  what  parts  of  the  day  they  are  most  active. So  we  can  see  the  ultimate  goal  is  to design  a  classroom  around  activity, but  also  to  be  able  to  focus  and  learn. Then  I  also  did  a  college  healthy  living  program with  ASU  Mayo  Clinic,  Basic  Solutions, where  we  developed  a  college  healthy  living  program to  help  students  lose  weight. I  was  the  head  intern  on  that  project. Again,  it's  really  interesting learning  how  to  do  studies, learning  how  to  write  papers, learning  the  different  parts  of the  research  papers  that  needs  to  be  included. What  data  is  important. Starting  to  how  to  analyze the  data  collected  in  a  way  that  it  can  be  analyzed. All  that  type  of  stuff  really  goes  into  my  work. Now,  I  was  going  to  go  this  way, but  yeah,  no,  I  mean, I  hear  a  lot  of  students  talk  about how  important  it  can  be to  do  independent  research  with  faculty  members. It's  helping  you  build  relationships  but  also  just giving  you  insight  into  this  whole  process of  research  which  is  a  lot  more  complicated. I  think  that  people  often  think, who  have  never  done  it  before. It's  like,  well,  you  just  give  out  a  bunch  of surveys  and  then  you run  it  through  a  stats  package  and  then  you're  done. Right?  Like  a  lot  more  complicated  than  that, there's  a  lot  more  step, Research  is  a  big  job. I  think  it's  useful  for  students  to  have  some, but  if  they  don't  end  up  in  your  career  path  where you're  so  active  in doing  research  or  helping  research  happen. Yeah,  I  think  another  thing  that  helped  is  learning  to adapt  to  change  with  EMR was  in  the  early  stages  and there's  still  some  things  that  are  changing. They  opened  318  commons. Like  my  sophomore  or  junior  year, I  think  things  were  steady, but  things  were  changing. Changing  my  major  all  the  time. And  just  like  learning  how  to  adapt  to those  changes  has  helped  me  in  my  career  field  now. Because  research  by  definition is  creating  change  a  lot  of  the  time, the  field  is  always  changing. There's  always  a  new  system, a  new  process,  a new  data  point  that  the  FDA  is  worried  about. So  we're  going  to  to say  state  of  point  more  than  any  other  one, and  you  just  have  to  roll with  the  punches  and  work  with  it. Yeah,  absolutely. That's  so  true. Science  builds  on  itself. You're  never  going  to  be  doing  the  same  project  exactly. Twice  the  world  changes  so  much  even  just  like, how  do  you  do  research  in  a  context where  of  covid,  I'm  sure? Yeah.  Very  different  compared  to  pre  Covid. Yeah.  That  ability  to  change  roll  with  whatever is  happening  in  society  that  time  and  how science  is  changing  and our  differing  understandings  of  how  we  should  do  stuff, all  that  is  difficult  but  important. What  advice  would  you  give  to  your  younger  self? I  wish  looking  back  that  I wouldn't  have  changed  my  major  so  many  times. I  wish  I  would  have  settled  on  something  sooner. But  at  the  same  time  it  didn't really  affect  me  in  a  negative  way. But  it  just  I  think  if  I  would  have  focused  on  one, if  I  wouldn't  have  diverted  from  the pre  med  or  the  physician. And  not  that  there's anything  wrong  with  the  public  health  path, it's  just  not  the  one  I  really  went  into. But  I  think  I  could've  taken  more  like science  based  classes  and  things  that  I  would  have  found. Beneficial  to  me  and  my  career  now. Maybe  it  would  have  been  more  interesting  at  the  time  if I'd  have  focused  more  and  worked  harder  at  it. But  generally, I  don't  have  a  lot  of  regrets  with  my  college  experience. Yeah,  I  had  a  lot  of  fun  and  I also  got  a  great  degree.  I  learned  a  lot. Yeah.  It's  so  hard  to  know  when  you're  going  through  it, what  the  right  path  is  to  choose. But  so  often  I  feel  like even  when  people  look  back  at  those  times  of  uncertainty, they  feel  like  maybe I  would  have  done  a  few  things  differently. But  overall,  it  got  me  to where  I  am  and  I'm  happy  with  it. Yeah,  exactly. The  University  of  Minnesota, Rochester  is  proud  to  present  Kern  Center  Connex, a  new  lecture  series  in  partnership with  Mayo  Clinic  and  the  Robert  D.  And Patricia  E.  Kern  Center  for the  Science  of  Healthcare  Delivery. Join  us  on  March  15  at  05:00  P.M.  from University  Square  for the  next  installment  of  Kern  Centers featuring  a  discussion  on  Covid  19 vaccinations  and vaccination  hesitancy  panelists  to  include Kurn  Center  researchers  and  UMR  faculty  to  register  visit Zubac,  Kern  Center  connects. What  about  any  advice  you  have for  maybe  students  who  are  going  to graduate  this  year  about transitioning  from  college  to  the  working  world. I  guess  you  can  tell.  I  graduated  in 2014  and  I've  had  124. I've  worked  for  four  different  companies, had  six  different  jobs  during  that  time. I  think  that  experience  has  been  good. I  feel  like  it  depends  on  your  career  path, but  at  least  in  research  and  in  general, it  used  to  be  to have  too  many  different  places  on  your  resume. People  get  worried  that  you're  not  going  to  stick  around. I  feel  like  times  are  different  right  now, where  if  you  see an  opportunity  come  up  and you  think  it  would  be  a  good  opportunity, you  should  go  for  it  and  just jump  in  and  see  how  it  goes. Right  now,  it  seems  like  at  the  job  market, the  way  it  is  that  if you  try  something  and  you  don't  like  it, you  can  get  a  job  and  try  somewhere  else. But  there's  a  big  jump  for me  to  go  from  the  site  side  to  the  sponsor  side. I  haven't  regretted  that  jump  at  all  because it  just  changed  everything. It  opened  a  lot  of  doors. I  just  don't  be  afraid  to  take. If  you're  worried  that  you  don't  have a  job  yet,  keep  looking. Try  to  shadow,  maybe  talk  to  people  in  the  industry. Join  those  working  groups. Build  a  really  good  linked  in profile.  I've  gotten  multiple. I  get  a  job  offer  once  a  week  from  my  Linton  profile. I'm  not  searching  right  now  for anyone  who's  looking  at  my  Linton  profile. Yeah,  yeah. Linked  has  been  great. Try  not  to  compare  yourself  to  other  people. Just  because  somebody  else  got  a  job  right  away that  starts  the  day  after they  graduate  doesn't  mean  you  have  to. You  do  have  some  time.  Yeah.  Find  something you  like  and  jump  in. Yeah.  No,  I  think  that's  also  really  good  advice. I  think  you  said  a  lot  of  good  things  there, but  a  couple  of  them  that  particularly  stood  out. I  think  there's  so  much  about the  world  that  is  changing  and  some of  the  rules  that  we followed  in  the  past  like  don't change  jobs  too  quickly  or  something  like  that. I  think  there  are  some  different  understandings  of  that, especially  if  you  have  a  good  reason  for  switching  jobs. Especially  like  I  want  to  try  out this  new  thing  that  I  haven't  done  before. As  long  as  you  can  explain  that, that  maybe  that  isn't such  a  bad  thing  to  done  a  few  things,  right? And  there's  a  lot  of  times  too, where  you  can  apply  the  skills  that you  are  using  at  your  current  job  into  a  new  position. If  you  can  leverage  those  skills and  those  experiences  into  a  new  job, it  can  really,  really  helpful,  right? And  be  able  to  explain  to  like future  employers  like  how  you  did  that  can  also make  them  feel  like  it  can make  them  understand  that  you're  going  to  do that  if  you  come  to  work  for  them  as well,  right?  Yeah.  Yeah. I  say  my  other  piece  of  advice  is  don't  be afraid  to  get  turned  down  after  a  job  interview. I  applied  to  some  jobs that  I  had  no  business  applying  to. It  was  still  interview, still  getting  experience  doing a  job  interview  and  learning the  questions  they're  going  to  ask  and  Yeah,  absolutely. That's  also  good  advice.  You  can  shoot  high. Yeah,  maybe  you  don't  get  it,  but  that's  okay. You  can  also  ask  them  later, like  why  didn't  you  hire  me? And  sometimes  sometimes  the  reply I  think  can  be  illuminating. Yeah,  I  also  like  your  piece  of  advice that  you  try  not  to  compare  yourself  to other  people  because  that  can  lead  to  a  lot  of  heartache. Like  everybody  is  on  their  own  path, and  two  paths  may  not  be  the  same. And  that's  okay.  We  shouldn't try  to  have  the  same  path  as  everybody  else. It's  a  bigger  journey  than  just. Competing  or  feeling  like  you  aren't  doing  well. I  feel  like  there's  a  lot  of expectation  with  undergrads  and  not  just  EMR, but  anywhere  with  a  lot  of  undergrads  that  okay, I  finished  my  undergrad, where  am  I  going  to  go  to  school  next? It's  great  that  some  people  do  go  to  school more,  but  everybody's  different. Just  because  everybody  in  your  class is  going  on  to  another  school  doesn't  mean  you  have  to. I  had  had  that  assumption  when  I  came  out  of  UMR, and  then  I  didn't. And  I'm  doing  okay.  That's  great. I'm  not  saying  I  won't  ever  go  back  to  school  again, but  I'm  doing  okay  right  now. Yeah,  for  sure.  And  also, I  think,  you  know, if  some  day  maybe  you'll never  choose  to  go  back  and  that's  totally  fine. But  if  you  do  choose, I  suspect  you'll  be  in  a  much  better  position  to really  have  a  sense  of  what  it  is  you  want  to  do,  right. Like  yeah,  because  of  all  your  work  experience, because  of  what  you've  done, and  you  know  yourself  better. Now,  I  suspect  that  you  did  when  you graduated  at  what  you  like  and  what  you  don't  like, You  can  make  a  really  targeted  decision about  your  next  steps  and  what  you  need  to  get  there. Totally. What's  the  next  for  you  Speaking  of  that, what  you  think  you're  going to  stay  in  your  current  job  for  a  while? What  would  be  on  the  horizon  for  you? Yeah,  I  want  to  do  this  for  at  least  another  year. I  want  to  be  a  CRA, and  another  couple  of  years  I  want  to  be  CRA. There's  a  CRA  one  and  then  there's  a  CRA  two, and  then  there's  a  Senior  CRA  one, a  Senior  CRA  two. Could  you  remind  me  again  what  a  CRA  is? Clinical  Research  Associate,  that's  a  monitor. I  want  to  specialize  in  this  field. I  want  to  be  the  person  that  people  go  to with  questions  about  research and  I  want  to  be  the  one  to  answer  them. Then  eventually  down  the  line, maybe  I  can  go  into  being a  line  manager  or  working  in  the  part  like  directly  for a  pharmaceutical  company  or  for continue  moving  up  from the  CRO,  Clinical  Research  Organization. Anything  else  to  add? I  guess  with  all  this  career  stuff, I  also  had  two  kids, got  married,  had  two  kids, and  I've  moved  like  three  times. Okay.  Congratulations.  That's  awesome.  Thank  you. How  old  are  your  kids  now? I  have  a  three  year  old  and  a  one  year  old. Oh,  it's  such  a  cute  age. Yeah,  two  boys  cut. So  challenging. Very  fast.  Very  challenging.  Yeah. I  have  two  boys  as  well, so.  I  understand.  Yeah. Thank  you  to  Gavin  and  Molly, for  their  lively  conversation. And  thank  you  for  listening  to  Beyond  the  Nest  podcast. Beyond  the  Nest  is  produced  by University  of  Minnesota  Rochester  Alumni  Relations, and  edited  by  Marshall  Saunders with  Minnesota  Podcasting. Check  out  this  episode's  show  notes for  how  to  stay  in  touch  and  we  will  be back  next  month  for another  engaging  conversation  with  our  raptor.