Our  guest  today  is  Victoria  Mcweeney  Creek  2020, Minnesota  Women's  Press  Changemaker  2021, Facing  Race  Award  Honoree. I  could  go  on  and  on  with  her  accolades. Victoria  has  been  a  changemaker as  long  as  I  have  known  her. She's  versed  with  years  of experience  in  designing  instruction  and curriculum  design  that  leads to  lasting  change  and  action. One  particular  forte  is Victoria's  art  in  facilitating  critical  conversations. Examples  include  her  Respectful  Conversations  project and  the  MLK  Day  Rural  Racial  Equity  Summit. Victoria  is  a  graduate  of  the  University  of  North  Dakota with  a  Master's  in  Instructional Design  and  Performance  improvement. She  is  a  scholar, a  practitioner  with  expertise and  experience  in  rural  Minnesota, empowering  communities  towards that  effective  and  inclusive  change. She  has  been  an  active  community  transformer  who  walks the  walk  that's  exemplified  by her  run  for  third  ward  on  the  Fergus  Fall  City  Council, dubbed  the  risk  taker  changemaker. Victoria  sees  these  challenges  as  opportunities  and  is working  to  change  the  face  of  Minnesota. Welcome  to  Wake  up  Minnesota. You  are  also  the  founder  and president  of  Organization  for  Full  Participation, focused  on  that  racially equitable  performance  improvement and  organizational  effectiveness. We  are  so  glad  you're  here,  Victoria. We  know  you  have  a  lot  of  support and  wise  words  for  our  rural  leaders.  Wow. Thank  you  so  much  for that  introduction,  to  be  here  with  you. As  always,  my  friend, when  we  talk  about  rural  leadership, and  especially  rural  leadership  for  bio, let's  talk  about  leadership  style because  I  feel  like  there's  a  difference. Can  you  tell  us  about  your  leadership  style? How  that  evolved? And  are  there  intersections with  your  identity  as  a  woman  of  color? That  is  a  question. I  think  for  me the  most  important  thing  to  know  about  me  and my  style  and  the  way  I navigate  this  world  is  that  I'm  about  the  community. So  I  stay  focused  on  what  is going  to  make  my  community or  the  community  that  I  might  be  working  with. One  that  supports  and  works  for  as  many  of  us  as  it  can, which  means  all  of  us. That  really  does  mean  that  am  a  person  who is  inspired  to  really  facilitate other  people  in  their  movement  and their  expertise  so  that  we  can  have that  one  shared  goal  and  vision  and engage  and  deliver  and  execute  upon  that  vision  together. As  a  facilitative  leader, my  approach  really  is  to  ensure  that everybody  has  input  into  what  the actual  and  not  just assuming  that  I  understand  the  problems. Those  who  are  closest  to  those  issues  are  the  ones  who know  what  the  problems  are  and where  the  case  in  the  system  are. Those  are  the  folks  who  are  most equipped  to  help  determine  the  way  forward, the  solutions  that  will give  us  the  outcomes  that  we're  looking  for. That  means  equitable  outcomes. I  like  my  asset  based. Yeah.  Yeah.  I  don't  always  use  the  terms, but  I  do  the  work  for  me  is  important to  be  able  to  develop  people so  that  we  can  achieve  better  results  together. Make  sure  that  our  communities,  our  organizations, our  families  work  well  and are  striving  towards  their  own  identified.  Cool. Yes,  I  think  leaders  forget  leading isn't  always  being  up  in  front  of the  room  and  saying  this  is how  it  is  and  this  is  what  you're  going  to  do. Effective  leadership  is  how well  you  have  worked  with  Essential  Health, you've  worked  with  Department  of  Transportation, and  you've  worked  with  extension.  I  remember. Having  that  facilitative  discussion where  we  came  to  the  point  of, oh,  okay,  these  are  our  challenges getting  on  that  page.  That's  a  gift. It's  really  about  slowing down  in  order  to  go  further  as  opposed to  going  fast  and  trying  to  get to  some  arbitrary  destination. If  we  can  be  on  the  same  page, in  the  same  book, right?  It  doesn't  matter. I  could  be  on  page  23  in  one  book  and you  could  be  on  23  in  another  book. And  it's  page  23, but  we're  not  on  the  same  page. And  I  think  really  being  able  to ensure  that  we  are  having  the  same  conversation, that  we're  making  meaning  together  and  co  creating shared  understanding  about  what  is  at hand  and  what  our  vision and  our  outcomes  are  meant  to  be. Only  with  understanding  really  the  roots, the  factors  that  contribute  and  influence the  situations  that  we  as leaders  in  our  communities  have. Is  to  stop,  is  to  assess  and  survey  the  landscape, and  then  identify  one  or  two  specific  things that  we  can  do  and  achieve  with  excellence  right, in  a  defined  period  of  time. Yes.  I  appreciate  so  much  about  your  leadership  Victoria, is  that  you're  not  hesitant, you're  not  afraid  to  say  that  we  do  have  some  problems, there  are  some  issues  that are  either  blatant  or  maybe  even  underlying, but  that  they're  there  and  that  they  exist  sometimes, especially  in  our  state  in  Minnesota, it  can  be  easy  to  try  to  jump  to  the  solutions,  right? But  I  appreciate  so  much  that  you're willing  to  say,  let's  slow  down, let's  really  look  at  what's  happening here  so  that  then  we  can  be  on  the  same  page and  have  the  conversation  about  what  to  do next  and  how  do  we  do  it  together. I  really,  really  appreciate  that. Thank  you.  It  comes  from  a  place of  I  want  to  say  not  being  heard, that  I  want  to  make  sure  that  I  enable  people  to  speak. That  I  create  the  condition  through my  leadership  style  and  practices  that allow  folks  to  show  up  as  they  are with  the  gifts  that  they  have  to contribute  to  the  greater  good, and  that  we  use  those, we  deploy  and  leverage  the  strength that  we  all  have  on behalf  of  our  communities  and  organizations. I  thank  you  for  saying  that  because  it's important  to  me  to  make  sure that  voices  are  heard and  that  we're  not  shutting  anybody  down. Right?  Yeah.  And  as  we  talk  about  voices  not  being  heard, especially  in  our  communities with  black  indigenous  and  people  of  color. I  think  in  the  context  of  Minnesota, there's  a  lot  of  stereotypes  about what  leadership  looks  like  or  myths  about what  leadership  looks  like for  black  indigenous  and  people  of  color. What  has  been  your  experiences  encountering  some  of those  myths  or  in  your  work?  How  does  that  show  up? Another  good  question  and a  difficult  one  for  me  to  answer  in  a, in  a  manner  that  I  think  is  not  circular  to  some  extent. In  that  I  have  always,  it  seems  right, been  over  prepared,  right  over qualified  to  do  whatever it  is  that  I  am  being  chosen  to  do. Particularly  with  regard  to  my  professional  career. Skills  and  expertise  have been  underestimated  or  minimized. Right.  And  not  utilized  and  leveraged. And  I  think  that  is  part  of  the  mythology that  I  have  faith that  black  women  need more  stringent  supervision,  right? To  be  micromanaged  to  be. I'm  going  to  speak  for  myself. I  have  had,  it  seems  I felt  that  I've  had  to  really  be  able  to twist  myself  into  press  in  order  to  show  up  in  ways  that is  acceptable  and  palatable  for  rural. Rural  community  that  I  live  in, at  least  that's  something  that  I  used  to  do. It  is  not  something  that  I  do  anymore, being  aware  that  I  was  doing  that. When  I  became  aware  that  I  was  doing  that, it  took  a  lot  of  unlearning  and practice  with  being  okay with  being  uncomfortable  about the  fact  that  other  people were  going  to  be  uncomfortable. Because  I  was  going  to,  in a  way  that  they  may  have  felt  uncomfortable  with. Because  that's  just  how  I  grew  up,  that's  my  culture. We  are  expressive,  right? Being  bigger  and  taking up  space  is  something  that  I'm  trying  to  do. Now,  as  opposed  to  being  minimized  and  underestimated, you  will  see  me  whether  or  not we  agree  on  any  specific  issue or  challenge  that  we  are  facing. You're  going  to  understand  where  I  stand, what  my  perspective  is, and  I'm  going  to  do  all  within  my  power to  understand  what  your  perspective is  and  where  you're  coming  from. Then  perhaps  we  can  figure out  how  to  move  forward  beyond  assumptions, beyond  my,  beyond  the, the  negative  stereotypes  that  are rampant  in  our  community  right  on. I'm  so  glad  you  touched  on  that and  that  internalized  racism, really  trying  to  fit  into  what other  folks  want  you  to  be  that  makes  them  feel  good. I  know  that  is  a  recurring  theme  in rural  Minnesota  with  bio  folks  looking at  or  even  in  those  positions  of  leadership, the  balance,  who  am  I, Who  do  you  want  me  to  be? Yeah,  you  talk  about  that  work. That  is  the  work  of  being  self  aware  and  self  determined. Right.  In  order  to  self  actualize, that  is  the  work  of wife  that  I've  come  to  understand  is  the  work  of  we being  able  to  articulate  and  say  the  words  that  need to  be  said  to  the  people  that  need to  hear  it  in  a  way  that  they  can  get  it  right. When  I  say  that,  I  don't  twist myself  and  press  hold  anymore.  I  don't. But  I  will  shift  my  message  so that  I  can  make  sure  that  you  get  it. Because  that's  the  point  of  me  sending a  message  to  you  is  I  want  you to  understand  and  receive what  I'm  saying  the  way  I  intended  it  to. So  that  means  I  need  to  know  a  little  bit about  you  in  order  to deliver  a  message  that  you  can receive  and  still  be  me  in  the. And  as  I  hear  you  talk  and  I  love  how your  voice  is  so  calming  and  like  I just  love  that  you  take  time.  You  take  your  time. And  I  admire  that  you  take  your  time  to  speak. You  don't  rush  through  it, you  don't  um  through  it, you  just  do  it,  you  know? I  love  this  self  aware, self  determined  to  be  self  actualized. I  think  that  is.  So  that's  so  beautiful  and  so  spot  on. And  I  think  that's  part  of  our  podcast  is uplifting  the  diversity  of  leadership  and recognizing  the  ways  that  leadership  calls us  to  do  different  things depending  on  what  your  identity  looks  like. For  leaders  of  color, for  black  indigenous  leaders, it's  not  just  the  process  of  leading, but  it's  also  the  process  of  understanding  who you  are  in  the  leadership  landscape. What  does  it  look  like  for  you  to  lead? What  does  it  look  like  in  different spaces  that  you're  in? Because  you  have  to  learn  how  to lead  authentically  with  yourself. And  then  I  hear  you  saying that  you  also  have  to  learn  how  to lead  in  spaces  where people  might  be  a  little  uncomfortable  with  who  you  are. They  might  be  uncomfortable  with your  confidence  or  your  brilliance, or  your  commitment  to  yourself. I  feel  like  that  our  podcast,  like  you  said, beyond  the  mythology, beyond  the  one  box  fits  all  leadership  approaches. But  thinking  about  what  does  leadership  call  us  to  do, especially  for  people  of  color, I  think  part  of  that  is  that  emotional intelligence  piece  that  you  bring  up, which  is  that  self  awareness, that  self  determination,  that  self  actualization. I'm  excited  to  hear  about  that  as  well. For  example,  this  morning  I  had  a  meeting  and I  was  talking  about  my  experience  being  a  Dr.  recipient, growing  up  undocumented,  as an  undocumented  immigrant  in  this  country. The  meeting  was  with some  school  administrators  and their  question  was  like,  what  advice  do  you  have? What  tips  do  you  have  for helping  our  students  who  are  in  that  same  situation? I  said  my  piece,  but  after  the  meeting, I  had  to  sit  there  with the  emotions  of  this  clashing  inside  of  me. On  one  hand,  I  felt  like  I  did  speak  what I  needed  to  about  how  it's  important  to  see  people, it's  important  to  acknowledge systems  and  how  they  impact  us. I  felt  this  pull  or  this guilt  that  I  didn't  fix  it  for  them. I  didn't  fix  it.  I  didn't  tell  them  the  solution. I  didn't  say,  oh, we'll  just  do  this  and  then  suddenly things  are  going  to  change  for  your  students. I  feel  like  that's part  of  that  emotional  intelligence  piece, that's  part  of  that  self  awareness, self  determined  piece. As  a  leader  of  color,  you  have  to  really  do  a  lot  of, I  don't  know,  self  regulation, self  exploration  of  your  own  emotions, to  be  able  to  get  clarity  on your  path  and  how  you  want  to  lead  authentically. Victoria,  can  you  speak  to  your  approaches  to emotional  intelligence  in  your  work as  a  leader  in  rural  Minnesota? I  am  one  I  used  to  have, I  was  in  America  or  for three  years  at  a  community  action  in  New  York  Mills. Actually  back  in  the  day, one  of  the  things  that  I  got  during  our  orientation, one  bands  that  were  really  popular  for  a  time, they  probably  still  are,  but  I  don't  have  any  anyway. I  had  one  that  I  wore  everywhere  that  said  inspire  by doing  as  a  leader. It  is  incumbent,  I  think,  on  me. And  when  I  say  lead, I  really  do  need,  first  of  all, lead  myself  and  be  real  clear  that  I have  to  manage  myself  first  before I  can  attempt  to  really  engage  with another  in  how  we  are  going  to  do  something  together. But  being  able  to inspire  by  doing  and  modeling what  it  means  to  be  fully  human  in  the  workplace. To  not  compartmentalize,  to  bring my  whole  self  into  a  situation which  allows  me  to  my  experiences, my  expertise,  my  cultural  influences  to bear  for  the  greater  good is  something  that  I  take  really  seriously. For  me,  being  able  to  show  up  100%  Victoria, who  brings  with  her  Dickie  from  the  west  side  of  Chicago, as  well  as  Victoria, the  doctoral  student,  a  Victoria, the  mother  of  now  adult  offspring, the  professional  bringing  all  of  that  to  bear. Enabling  not  just  myself  to  do  that, which  is  very  vulnerable  making, but  to  set  the  conditions again  to  enable  other  people  to  do  it. Folks  won't  do  it  if  they  can't  see  it. We  have  to  see, we  have  to  be  able  to  that  it  is possible  to  be  productive  when  necessary. I'm  not  all  about  producing  and  performing  all  the  time, but  I  think  that  when  necessary, I  can  focus  myself  and  those  around us  around  me  to  get  the  job  done  in order  to  be  okay  As  a  human  being  who  is  contributing to  community  development  and  engaging with  my  fellow  citizen. It  is  really  important  to  me  that we  are  able  to  show  up  and  bring  all  of  ourselves. And  sometimes  it  doesn't  look  good. The  self  I  bring,  maybe  it's  not the  version  of  myself  that  I  would like  to  bring  to  each  situation, but  at  that  moment,  it's  the  best  self  that  I  have  and  I want  to  bring  that  to the  situations  that  I  find  myself  in. I  feel  like  modeling  that, inspiring  by  doing  is one  of  the  best  things  that  I  can  do.  And  that  any Person  who  considers  themself  a  leader can  do  is  to  walk  the  talk, practice  what  you  preach. That  means  being  self  aware, knowing  what  will  trip  my  trigger. So  that  I  can  make  sure  that  I  am able  to  manage  myself  when  that  trigger  is  tricked. Because  it  will  be  I'm  not  going  to  walk  through  life. And  the  cobbles,  no  cobbles  are  lifted  from  the  street. It's  not  a  smooth  path. Being  able  to  practice self  awareness  on  a  regular  is  crucial. Understanding  my  own  implicit  biases and  where  they  come  from. Another  thing  that's  really  important, I  wasn't  really  a  fan  of implicit  bias  until  I  started to  really  dig  into  what  it  is  all  about. Once  I  understood  that  it  could  be a  bias  for  as  much  as  it  is  a  bias  against, right,  It  began  to  make  more  sense  to  me  and  I'm  like, okay,  I  get  that. Like  I  used  to  have  a  and  I  still  do, I'm  just  aware  of  it  now. Used  to  have  a  real  bias  for  older  white  women, like  I  felt  like  they  were  safe. This  is  because  when  I  was  a  kid, when  we  moved  to  rural  Minnesota, my  dad  and  my  brothers  would  go  and  help our  neighbors  on  their  farm  failing. Hey,  I  would  sit  in the  kitchen  with  the  wife,  the  farmer's  wife. She  would  make  cookies  for  me. She  taught  me  how  to play  a  couple  of  different  kinds  of  solitaire. She  just  made  me  feel  really  safe  and  I  just associate  automatically  older  silver  haired, white  women  as  safe, knowing  that  in  reality,  for  me, that  has  not  been  the  case  right  at  all  occasions. And  being  able  to  recognize  that  I  have  to  manage my  own  biases  or  I  have  a  bias for  another  bias  for  young  black  men. Like  I  want  them  to  be  okay. I  want  them  to  be  safe. I  want  them  to  feel  human. I  want  them  to  be  able  to experience  the  totality  of  the  human  spectrum, whatever  that  looks  like  for  them. Recognizing  that  in  previous  jobs I've  had  to  balance  that  and  be  like, okay,  I  can't  penalize young  white  boys  because  they're  not  young  blood  boys. Right?  So  being  aware  of my  biases  is  another  thing  that  I  think that  a  leader  who  is  emotionally intelligent  is  going  to be  able  to  practice  that  awareness. And  then  recognizing  also  that  given  or  depending on  where  I  am  in organization  with  regard  to  authority  and  position, that  there  are  some  things  that  I  can do  with  the  stroke  of  a  pen to  alleviate  some  barriers  to  ensure  parity, Auditing  the  policies,  practices, and  procedures  that  are  at  play  in  your  realm,  influence, and  acting  on  that  information  to make  sure  that  the  work  that  you  are  doing  as a  leader  is  actually delivering  equitable  results  on  purpose. Right.  Not  by  accident because  because  I've  taken  the  time  to  look  at the  issues  and  I've  taken  the  time to  assess  where  there  are  opportunities. And  I've  engaged  with  folks  so  that  I understand  the  impact  of  the  system  and  how  it  is, how  it  may  or  may  not  be privileging  some  and  hindering  others. So  when  you  talk  about  I  know  you've worked  with  a  lot  of  organizations, and  when  you  talk  about  making  those  changes, you  know  that's  then where  organizations  can  continue  to  heal  and  grow. Are  there  spaces  where  a  community got  it  right  and  what  was  right? So  I'm  thinking  about  that  particularly, I  mean,  I've  lived  in several  of  the  communities  in  Outer  Tale  County, and  so  I'm  going  to  think  specifically  around this  geography  and  one of  the  places  that  just  got  it  right, where  it  felt  right  from  the  start  was  New  York  Mill. The  way  in  which  they, when  we  moved  into that  very  small  rural  community where  I  want  to  say  we  were  probably  the  one  or  two. Black  families  there,  we  were  welcome. Unlike  several  communities  that we've  lived  in  in  Otter  Till  County, where  instead  of  being  welcomed  as  a  family, we  were  profiled, the  police  were  called  for  existing  in  our  space. I  think  being  aware and  being  intentional  about  welcoming  people, including  folks  in  community  happening, that  is  what  New  York  Mills  did  really  well. They  reached  out  intentionally. They  didn't  have  a  welcome  basket, right?  Nothing  like  that. But  literally  inviting  me  and  my  family to  event  and  to engage  in  community  development  activities. And  to  lead  those  things  that resonated  with  me  and intersected  with  my  skills  and  expertise. Just  providing  an  opportunity  for  me  to  immerse  myself into  the  community  and  get  to  know it  affected  because  I  was  it. That  is  something  that  was, that  I've  not  experienced  since. And  that's  not  to  say  that  living in  a  small  rural  community like  New  York  milk  was  perfect. But  they  did  get  that  right. They  get  they  got  that  right. I  don't  know  if  they  still  are  doing  that. They  were  a  horizon  community  at  that  time, but  they,  they  got  it  right  when  we  were  there. And  I  think  what  you  said  is, so  it's  like  it's  perfect. In  this  work  of  community  development, especially  in  rural  communities, we're  not  asking  people  to  be  perfect. We  don't  ask  ourselves  to  be  perfect  either. But  just  like  you  said, what  does  it  look  like  to  provide an  opportunity  for  things  to  happen, for  change  to  happen, for  welcoming  to  happen, for  inclusion  to  happen? I  mean,  that's  the  first  step,  right? There  has  to  be  some  openness, some  willingness  to  think  about,  well, what  if,  if  things  could  be  different? What  if  things  could  change? Even  this  small  invite  could  make  someone feel  like  they  were  seen  and  that  they  belong, that  they  have  a  place  in  a  community. I  really  love  that  idea  of  not  being  perfect, but  having  an  opportunity  for  something  to  happen. Yeah,  it's  critical. It  is  overlooked. It  is  under  appreciated  and  undervalued. But  the  simple  act  of  generosity  and  grace, right,  That  lend  themselves to  being  a  welcoming,  hospitable  place. I  think  about  the  word  hospitality and  I  think  about  the  word  hostility. They  have  the  same  root, so  you  can  be  hospitable  or  you can  be  hostile  and  you  are  still  hosting,  right? What  is  the  choice  that  you're  making  with your  hosting  actions  and  activities? Are  you  choosing  intentionally  to  be  open, welcoming  warm,  or  are  you choosing  to  be  closed  and  hidden? Which  do  you  want  pick? But  those  are  the  results  that  you  will  have,  right? That  is  a  great  way  to  look  at  it. Yeah,  it  is. It's  hosting  authentically  and it's  hot  with  what  you  said, that  Grace,  I  want  you  to  be  part  of  this, not  a  call  out  for  folks  to  put the  onus  on  bio  to  be  the  educators, not  to  say,  okay,  go  out  and  find  yourself somebody  and  follow  them  on  Twitter  or  whatever. Yeah,  I  love that  differentiation  because  that's  hostility. That's  I  learned  a  lot  from  my  grandmother, and  when  I  hear  voices  in  my  head, it's  my  grandmother's  voice  that  I  hear  the  loudest. She  was  the  hosts  with  the most  she  would  throw  out  the  welcome. In  fact,  it  was  always  out, strangers  could  walk  through the  door  and  they  would  get  a  meal. She  was  just  that  person  who  was  like, if  it's  mine,  it  means  it's  ours. You  are  welcome  to  it  when  you  are  here. This  is,  this  is  going  to  look different  than  another  because the  configurations  are  different. I  think  that  community  development is  also  in  that  way  that  when  we Individuals  who  live  in the  community  and  we  have  people  transition  in  or  out. We  then  have  a  new  community. At  least  that  is  what  in  the  best  situation  is  happening. We're  creating  a  new  community  based  on  who  is  present. Not  just  who  shows  up  to  the  meeting, but  who  is  actually  present  in  the  community. As  we  look  at  that  differentiation, showing  up  versus  presence, what  advice  do  you  have  for  leaders  to  bring  along? It's  very  easy  to  just  have  a  presence  and  it's  safe. Yeah.  For  people  who  want  to  be  a, to  authentically  lead  themselves. Which  then  enables  them  to  inspire others  to  do  the  work  that  may  lead  to  a  shared  vision. It  is  really  important  to recognize  that  differences  in  our  backgrounds, our  perspectives,  and  our  experiences  are  assets,  right? They  need  to  be  affirmed. They  need  to  be  leveraged. They  need  to  be  brought  to  bear  for  the  community. When  as  leaders,  we  are seeking  input  and  engagement  in  order  to  do  something, to  accomplish  some  task, to  achieve  some  goal. It  is  incredibly  important that  we  look  beyond the  folks  who  typically  are  showing  up. I  mean,  this  is  not  anything  new, this  is  not  rocket  science  in  that  really  going to  where  people  are  instead  of  asking  them  to  come  to you  is  going  to  be  the, the  key  here  to  ensuring  that  we have  the  possibility  of  having  diverse  voices, heard  diverse  voices,  contributing  diverse  voices, deciding  together  on  the  path  forward. I  think  that's  number  one,  is  recognizing  that differences  are  assets  and that  we  need  to  leverage  them  as  such. We  are  aware  also, if  we're  an  equity  minded  leader, that  there  is  some  systemic  inequity. And  that  we  have  to  work  to  very  hard  to  make  sure  that, number  one,  we  are eradicating  them  when  we  recognize  them. And  that  we  are being  very  thoughtful  and  intentional  about  what we  initiate  or  institute  that  is  brand new  so  as  to  not  privilege  some  and  hinder  others. Then  we  have  to  really  base  our  decisions  not  on  hunches, not  on  assumptions,  not  on  myths, but  on  the  data. What  is  the  evidence  that  supports  or negate  any  of  our  practices,  our  policies,  procedures? What  are  they  saying?  In  order to  understand  what  the  data  is  saying, we  have  to  desegregate  it. We  have  got  to  segment  it  out. And  not  just  take  all  the  compiled  average  and  say, well,  we're  doing  pretty  good. We  have  to  be  able  to  drill  down  into the  data  and  look  at  different  segments  by  race, by  ethnicity,  by  disability,  by  household  income. And  see  who  is  being  impacted, who  is  being  hurt  by  our  ways  of  doing  things, who  is  being  helped  by  our  ways  of  doing  things. And  then  how  do  we  make  sure  that  we  are designing  ways  forward  that are  universal  with  regard  to  access  to  me? That  really  does  mean  thinking about  those  who  are  marginalized, having  a  plan  for  that  particular  segment. Because  when  we  take  care  of  the  most  marginalized, everybody  succeeds.  It  helps  everyone. Why  is  desegregation  so  hard? Anyways,  rocket  science,  I  get  into  the  data, dig  into  it,  and  then  ask  the  questions. Interrogate  only  what  you  think  the  data, but  why  do  you  think  the  data  is  saying  that? Yes.  And  then  get, gather  some  more  evidence  to support  or  negate  that.  Talk  to  some  people. Right.  It's  not  just  about  Yeah,  quantitative. It's  about  the  stories  too. Well,  going  back  to  that  story that  you  were  telling  about  your  grandmother, the  hostess  with  the  most  as  you  said, I  think  as  educators  for  Jen  and  I. This  is  the  kind  of  story  that  we hear  so  much  in  enroll  Minnesota. I  think  I've  heard  so  many  stories about  people's  grandparents  or  how things  used  to  be  where  we  were more  communal  or  we  were  more  together. When  I  hear  you  say  that, I  think  of  how  beneficial  it  would  be for  us  to  imagine  that  things  could  be  like  that. Like  what  holds  us  back  from  that happening  and  what  holds  us  back,  including  people. And  then  also  for  us  as  bi  poc  leaders. Especially  leaders  who  are starting  their  leadership  journey, who  are  starting  to  speak  up  more, who  are  starting  to  step  into  their, the  power  and  their  confidence. What  does  it  look  like  for  us  to  allow  ourselves  to  be in  those  spaces  and  to  feel  like  we  do  have something  important  to  say  for  you, Victoria,  as  a  leader, for  someone  who's  talked  a  lot about  this  emotional  intelligence, about  coming  together,  deciding  together, and  having  grace  for  each  other. What  would  be  your  word  for  emerging  leaders, especially  those  who  may  feel  like they're  the  only  ones  that  look  like  them. What  would  your  word  of  advice  be  to  them? I  think  first,  particularly  for  someone who  is  up  and  coming  and  noticing the  disparate  treatment  and  disparate  outcomes, it  can  be  really  disheartening,  disappointing, and  makes  us  all  of those  really  negative  feelings  that  are  associated  with not  being  honored  as  a  full  human. I  think  for  me, taking  care  of  myself  or  you  know  that  the  young  leaders need  to  take  care  of  themselves  first  because we  can  only  pour  out  if  we're  full. Right?  So  take  care  of  yourself. Additionally,  make  sure  that  you, curating  a  network  of  support, being  really  intentional  about where  you  are  making  relationships and  reaching  out  to  others  who  may  look  like  you, think  like  you  have  similar  big  backgrounds  or experiences  that  can  support  you. The  disappointments  that  will  often  confront  us, that's  really  important  to  take  care  of yourself  and  to  curate  that  network  of  support. Then  I  think  really  importantly, particularly  as  a  person  who  walks  around  with a  black  woman  face  in a  predominantly  white  rural  community, to  be  able  to  engage  from  a  place  of  loving  compassion, not  only  for  myself,  but  for  other  people. No  matter  who  they  are, what  their  background  is, even  what  their  thoughts  we  can  have. Completely  diametrically  opposed  beliefs  and  values still  honor  the  fact  that  you're a  human  being  on  this  Earth  who  is  deserving  of  dignity, honor,  and  things  like  that. Just  making  sure  that  the  place that  you're  coming  from  is  one  that is  compassionate,  that  is  loving. We  can,  we  can  correct  with  love. We  can  provide  feedback  that  is  constructed, that  is  meant  to  build,  not  destroy. I  think  that's  where  I'm  coming  from. Every  time  I  open  my  mouth  is  how  can  I  build? I  call  myself  a  disruptive  developer. I,  if  I  see  an  issue  or a  situation  that  looks like  I  need  to  intervene  in  some  way, shape  or  form,  I'm  going  to  disrupt  what  is  happening. Whatever  that  cycle  or  pattern  is, I'm  going  to  do  my  best  to  disrupt  it. And  that  might  mean  that  I'm  calling  the  question. At  the  same  time,  I  am  willing  and  able  to  be  part  of the  process  to  develop an  answer  for  that  issue  or  situation. And  I  think  that  is  what  is  to being  able  to  build  a  community is  as  much  as  I  am  one  who  would  say, let's  take  this  whole  thing, dump  it  all  out,  and  start  over. I  recognize  that  that  is  not  going  to  happen. That  means  we  need  to  be  able  to disrupt  and  develop  at  the  same  time, play  in  both  of  those  positions.  Do  that  with  love. I  think  that's  a  perfect  ending. Thank  you,  Victoria  so  much  for  being here  with  us  today  on  Wake  Up  Minnesota. Thank  you  for  sharing  your  wisdom, your  knowledge,  your  experiences, and  also  encouraging  us  all  to  be disruptive  developers  as  we  carry  on  our  work. And  also  to  carry  that  self  awareness to  get  to  that  self  determination and  that  self  actualization. Thank  you  so  much  for  your  time.