From University of Minnesota, Rochester Alumni Relations. Welcome to the second season Beyond the Nest. Marco Lands, Umar, Director of Alumni Development Relationships. This season wrapped her alumni check in with Umar faculty members and student success coaches on life after University Square. How undergraduate research has shaped their career pathway and the importance of mentors in one's life. Today, 2018 graduate Muhammad Dane chats with Umar, biology professor Rachel Olson. Currently Muhammad is pursuing a Phd at the Male Clinic Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences. His doctoral thesis focuses on developing strategies to confront health disparities in regenerative medicine treatments. I am currently a second year BD student in May Clinic. Graduate school here in Rochester Campus. May clinic have multiple tracks for the BD. I am in the clinical and translational science track. It's a little bit unique track where the research, if you are interested in translational research, where whatever you do, see it through the pipeline, from patients to, you know, application. All the stuff is very cool. I'm in that track. The classes that we take a little bit unique. We take a lot of variety of classes. Advanced P, advanced statistics and basic science biology. Which is the key here to prepare the folks if they're interested in working in let's state government or organizational leaders, something like that. They are able to speak multiple languages in terms of the science. They understand the basic mechanisms of research, they understand the clinical regulation of science, the RBD process and all that stuff. That's my track. I'm actually curious because I knew, I mean, letters, that you were working in Carly's lab and you were hoping to continue in her lab. But where did you end up? One of my goals was always to maybe go back to my home country of Somalia in Middle East and do science there. But one of the difficulties, let's say in Somalia, which is my home country right now, for example, is that they just got out of civil war. And the country now is rebuilding basically. Now, if a scientist goes there and wants to open a lab or something, there's no funding, there's nothing, there's no knowledge about research. The importance of research, like in the United States, the government funds a lot of research. And that just shows you why the government cares about research and the society accepts research in some capacity. I think that is lacking in developing countries. I thought that was really a big problem. If I want to do that, I wanted to be able to work in, let's say CDC or somewhere that I can facilitate scientific advancement. That way if someone as a scientist wants to come to the country, the funds a lot of opportunities there. Because science like a backbone of everything that we do. I think that is really lacking. And that's why I was reflecting, okay, based on that premise, what can I do know that could prepare me to do that? I decided to do a project that is a little bit unique because it has a basic science. It has more of a patient clinical aspect. And lastly, it has a policy FDA aspect to it as well. Three aims. Basically what I'm doing is that basically I'm working with regenerative medicine treatments. One thing I'm saying, my argument here is that typically as scientists or folks, we focus a lot on technology advancement and all that stuff. But after the technology comes to market, we say there's health disparities, there's this, there's that. We need to address that. Why not anticipate ahead of time and say, okay, we know this will exist disparities, but when technology comes to market, research has to be done already ahead of time. When the technology comes to market, people ready can do interventions, We saw that with a Cop 19 MRNA. When the technology came to market, people were skeptical and all that stuff. If many research was done ahead of time to prepare people what is the MRNA, all that stuff. I thought like the responses or the treatment were being better compared to what we had. Basically, I'm working with regenerative medicine treatments which is all coming to market. And these treatments are PRP, plate rich plasma for knee osteoarthritis, cart for cancer, immunotherapy, and apply graft for diabetics and dry eye serum for dry disease. These are current new regenerative medicine treatments that are Into market that are currently being used in let's say in some clinic and all that stuff. These are early products and we need to understand. First thing I have three, Basically I'm saying that let's use the original products that we have and do the research and see the barriers. And document the barriers in case in a couple of years when medicine becomes standard care of treatments and many of the treatments become available. We already know some idea of the barriers to regenerate medicine. My first aim is going to be looking in multiple clinics in the United States who are giving these treatments. Just getting the lay of the land. Who is currently getting these treatments? The demographics, their age, all the stuff I'm gathering. A lot of factors such as phrase, ethnicity, socioeconomics, this is the gap in research. No one look at these factors in terms of regenerative medicine, accessibility. Everyone focuses on funding it, researching it, making it really cool. But how about when it comes available? Nobody's doing that research. That's another side of the coin. That's like talk and nobody focuses on it. I'm focusing on it, that's the first a documenting. Currently what we have in the United States in multiple clinics. I'm partnering with multiple clinics in different regions in the United States and I'm talking to many clinics and BI's establish a protocol like an RRP and to do this kind of research and gather all these registries of data and all that stuff, that's the first that will give us answers in multiple factors. And I'm not excluding any factor because each community has one specific factor that may care about. For example, in Somali community, one of the reasons why covid vaccination was low, for example, was that people thought Covid 19 had a materials in it and that was against the religion. Once that was explained and addressed, the vaccination increased. Each community has a specific factor that may limit their accessibility, we can never assume for all. That's why I'm doing everything, all the factors, basically. The second aim after we do that now comes to basically interview. The first one was qualitative, The second one, first one was quantitative. The second one is qualitative interviews with physicians and patients. Basically because sometimes we learn that they are physician biased. But we also learned that patients may have a personal barrier that we might not be able to get it from the data or from the database. Talking to the patient themselves, why they got their regenerative medicine treatments. What helped them? Or why do they think they didn't want to get it? These specific questions will help us answer if there's a barrier or facilitator to regenerative medicine. That's the second aim, which is interviewing patients and physicians. The third aim now is going to be the cool sort, in my opinion, which is taking the first aim and the second aim and doing something. I think I'm the first one to do. It is like a policy recommendation state and federal level. So basically I'll do a policy analysis. I think I'll probably take a policy course, do a policy analysis and see the current policy that helps the treatments or prohibit the treatments. Not only that, I'll look at like price coverage, insurance, all that stuff. And that way my data and what's out there can be combined into a memo or a policy recommendation that I can give it to medical centers statewide or maybe a federal who knows that. The third aim, and I think the inspiration for this, is that the kind of documentations are really powerful single handler, they can change a lot of stuff. For example, PRB was not covered, PRB was out of pocket product, right? It was tough. But a scientist in mayor that I was talking to literally did this kind of research that I'm doing for wound care. He was, she showed PRB effective for wound care and now Medicaid, they put it in the coverage because of his data and now means that many people have access to that treatment. Basically, this kind of documentation or research I think are really powerful in terms of they can create change a lot. I think that's the overall overview of the aims and I think it's just that it's a little bit different, it's a little bit unique. And I like it, which is cool. As Beyond The Nest Grows, we would like to hear from you. Rapper alumni are encouraged to visit this episode's show notes for how to get in touch and share your UMR journey. Now let's get back to Muhammad and Professor Olson as they discuss lab rotations and undergraduate research. This is so exciting to catch up because when I first met you, you were set upon medical school and it was a difficult transition. I recall you struggling internally when you came to realize you liked research, but you were doing basic research, you've done a lot of research projects. So you've transitioned from medical and then I thought you were going to stay more in the basic you provided that you switched to the Translational Program at Mayo Clinic. And now it's it's like you evolved over time. You had to do rotations? Yes. Whose lab did you pick and how did you choose them, and how did you to settle? I remember your advice. You said that rotations are the best time, like to go to the lab and learn and the skills. And if you join a lab, you won't have that. I remember exactly words exactly said that. You said that. Take advantage of that and do I did almost five rotations. Did you did take advantage of it? Yeah, I did five rotations. And not only that, during the five rotations, I communicated and made connections with the PI's and some of them actually became part of my tack members. I take advantage of that as well. So the first rotation with Dr. Peter Harris and Dr. Karl Assessment, which is the lab that I was in, which is more of a basic science working with basic. And I love it and I did that for all undergrad and two years as a pulse back and I love that. But I remember telling myself because even I said that in my caps, I'm the type that if I feel comfortable in one thing, I stick with it and move on and say, okay, I don't have to do all that stuff. But one thing I learned what you said and from caps experience, that's okay. Let's say that this is great, let's see other stuff and then compare and you can pick. That's what I did the second lab practicing. I did also a basic science which is with Dr. Ecker. It was more of a genome engineering with zipper fish. I wanted to combine basically genome engineering and I love the lab rotation. I worked with Dr. Clark, which is him and Dr. they work together. It was really awesome. I spent actually extra a couple weeks in the rotation because I really liked it. After that, I said, okay, these are both basic science. Now I want to check the other spectrum of the translation research. The third rotation, I pick Dr. Luis Roberts to Solar Casino with the Somali committee and he does all that research. It was super cool to see what this research is done because I've never done this research before. But during that time, I was reflecting myself. I was saying, okay, I know if I pick whatever I'll be comfortable. I like all of them. But the question is now, typically from my experience, HD's typically don't ask these questions in long term. Everyone's like okay, friendship busy. Then you can think about what you want to do. But I'm like, I can't do that. This is in my nature to see in a vague way where I'm going, like what I want to do in the future. I wanted, as I said, to open a lab in my home country. Really, I saw this difficulty. I was inspired that I think maybe I can take my skills speak in multiple languages and living in multiple culture in multiple countries, I think I can take the skill that I have with the skill of research and do something good. That's why after the third live rotation, I said, okay, I'm now more interested in more of a clinical and translational research. Now. I need to find a BI or a project or someone that can do that. Finally, I did a fourth rotation with Dr. Zubin Masters. I don't know if you know him. Basically, he does the research, conduct classes and he's more of a bioethicist medicine scientists and he done wide range of research. He worked in the government too. That was something I was interested. I told him that already that I want a policy in my research because that's something I'm interested in. And he's like, yeah, I worked in policy. I'm from Canada for years. Then I came back to academia and I was able to help you. So we connected and we facilitated conversation. And after that, I did a fifth rotation, but one to two weeks of the rotation. I decided that I wanted to join the fourth lab, which is with Dr. Zuber Masters. I joined basically January of last year. I joined a little bit 0. So you're at this stage of, if you're a year in rough way, at the stage of forming your committee and your support systems. Right. Yet then or you're still forming it. Because since I was in Mayo, I'm a little bit ahead of my current cohort. So they are currently organizing their tech committee. But I already did that last year. And I, I held literally my first tech committee meeting, which went really well and they really like the project. They give me a lot of feedback. One feedback that I got was to diversify my sample. Because we know that may people who come to Mao are from same type of people who have money, all that stuff. That's why the idea of parting with multiple clinics and all that stuff was an idea that I came up with and I'm implementing. You came from actually not a linear background and I know that you didn't, you not like our normal UR students coming straight to us. Would you elaborate upon how? When I came to America, I came in as a high school, almost end of high school. I wasn't able to speak English, so I only knew yes and no. That's it during a junior year in high school and people were preparing for ECT and exams and applying for college, it was really impossible. So that's why I had to take extra year in high school to get good in English. And I bombed the ACT exam. I did not do well because I didn't even understand the word, what you know in the exam. And I remember asking, what does this mean? After that, I did research and I realized community colleges do not require ACT. I said, okay, the next step for me now while I'm learning English. Because if I want to pick a science knowledge or math, I can just learn it overnight. But language takes time. It takes a while, you can never learn it overnight. That's something I had to accept. The next step for me was that to do a community college. That's why I decided to go. Even though I had a Port GBA from high school, I could have applied for any, but I knew that I wasn't going to do well. I didn't have an ACT. I applied to RCT and I did two years there. I knew that I was interested in healthcare medicine. Md, MDB. That's all I knew. Actually, not MD MD. After CTC, I came to Mr. And I said, okay, I need now the next two years to do a bachelor. And I surveyed and I looked at, I was like, wow, next to May small class, this is amazing. You know? This is what I want also. Because one thing I know also is that having a small class and more discussions, I thought that is my advantage because that will help me more have a conversation with people, develop my English. Because the first two years that I did in DC was really like a big, even though it's a community college, I feel like it was like just people show up to their class, they just listen to lectures and they leave you was more of a discussion project, team management, all that stuff that really developed me. And even now in May, right now, people are surprised by our skills. Like the way we organize, meet, discuss, and even facilitate a conversation is a training that is unspoken Training that gives and we don't say a lot about and we need to share that. Pretty much. After that, I did two years in R and then from 22 as a transfer student and graduated in 2018. It's already been that long. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Time lies, doesn't it? When you were at UR, I had the privilege of working with you on some side projects because you were very active and you did a couple impact the innovative model I was going to come to that dance. Yeah. Do you want to talk about that curative? Yes. Yes. If I had to say origin of Muhammad story. In terms of research, if we need to go back to the origin is the impact program and you were the mentor for it. I think that program was like, oh my gosh, that was the program that almost introduced me to research. And we wrote a grant, we did upholster, we submitted it, we were selected for oral presentations. We presented, oh my gosh. We did that for two years. And the second year, we also got to present, but we never won one. But it was amazing experience. I think that was really great. That's why I'm always thankful to you because your mentorship was always key and everything that I'm doing here. And I always remember like you were one of the pillars that helped me to get to this point. And the impact program was really amazing program, even when we presented it. Now looking back, I now understand the significance of it because I'm doing now more presentations, more proposals and grants. And I'm like, wow, did we just write a grant? I didn't even know that that was grant. You're very flattering and I'm very thankful. But I have to tell you that I've had a lot of impact, Students as well, who have said our students write grants, who go in different route. You actually like you found out you liked it. Whereas I had other students who are like, nope, this was a good experience, never again. Also, another thing that I want to mention is that, that was the beginning of my research, but also at the end I did also with you the epigenetic classic Martin Fernandez, that class. Oh my gosh. And we went to Mayo and we present that. I think that class should be a mandatory. I also really enjoy that class because it's authentic research experience. And we were able to have partnerships with primary investigators and technicians. And we had Stephanie who was a student. More experience. Yes. Yeah, that class was really great. And I think one thing doing now, because I want to improve research in the future. One thing I'm noticing right now, if you ask a ten year old about do you know what a physician is or medicine theta. Yeah, I know I know the knowledge of the field as early as possible will most likely sometimes increase the popularity or knowledge about that field. The fact that I learned about research and I did research literally in college level, that is I think not really a good thing. That's why I think this class making more and trying to show it showcase more. I think it's key well as you're developing in your program. And let's say you have like a little Bits that you can share with undergrads, we can make a directed study together our future. Yeah, I mean, that's something I'm really interested in because that's something I want to work on. When I, Let's go back to my home country or here, one of my goals is to see the gallery. And one thing I found based on my own investigation or research is that if you ask a young children or any person about medicine or other field engineer, they will tell you, yeah, we know that knowledge about the field is key. If people knew about what research is, what is the counsel of the research, why research is important? I think people might develop the passion, just move forward and ignore maybe the difficulties in research. And I think that's the key. Even though like in physicians and other born out there are other challenges but people overlook it, I think that's key. Installing that curiosity, seeking of science or knowledge, that's what I currently now doing with Riverside, with elementary. I go there. Riverside? Yes, I go there. Yes. And actually I have a broadcast next week with the Riverside. Did you also do Somali rebuild here? Yes. You still work with Somali rebuild? Yes. Yes. And I went to the school as well last month and I spoke about science and basically in explaining and made it so cool, people like, yeah, I want to be a scientist. Like almost I had ten people scream, I want to be a scientist, they're amazing. Such a dios session. Yes. With Minnesota's state legislative session just around the corner. Be sure to join University of Minnesota advocates for the U's 2022 legislative kickoff on Tuesday, January 25, Held virtually in featuring all five campuses including UMR. The kickoff will share the U's goals and priorities for the upcoming legislative session. And you'll also hear from the Minnesota State Capitol Press Corps on what to expect from policymakers in St. Paul. Please visit advocate to sign up. Are you able to find a work life balance? And still, I know that you're very connected with your family. Have you been able to navigate because you're volunteering plus year in graduate school and I know you have family. How are you fitting all these things together? I think that is a very important question. And one thing, one of the reasons why I decided to, besides coming to, one of the reasons was to stay close to the family. Because chess, our first home in United States when we came here, but also after looking for the BD programs, also made it was good option with all but also closeness to the family was also another key. I'm very heavily involved with my family actually I live with my family. I think that is better in terms of because B D typing is not much. It's just you can live on it but why not just save some money and if you want to do something else and to do it with it and other projects as well. I think it's just tough sometimes. Sometimes I work from home and sometimes I go to my office. Sometimes it's very difficult to see what is the time I'm supposed to stop right now. And it's very challenging and I'm managing it well. I say you have time for hobbies, the family work, and you're volunteering. You have walk gym and hang out with friends and yeah, it's the notable, it's just that dividing the time I think is the key and knowing the outcome from that time. Let's say I have let's say from now to 05:00 P.M. today. I want to do this. After 05:00 P.M. I need to catch up with a friend. And after that let's grab a lunge and all that stuff. And dividing the time and knowing that you are capable of fulfilling that. I think that is the key. Oftentimes graduate students are stressed, extremely stressed, and you seem very calm. How come to stay calm while your classmate They're probably not naturally. I always been optimistic person. I think also from my back home experience, based on what I lived before, like living in Saudi Arabia or different countries, which life of stuff, education was not available. You weren't able to go to high school or college. The only option is you do a labor work. Even though my family, someone if you have a degree, you can never use it because you can never become a citizen. I have all that experience. And then moving from there to Jordan to seek refugee, and then coming in the United States as a refugee and learning the English as a third language. All that experience is in my mind, and I always compare it to that, that's the group reference idea. Comparing to that, this is nothing, This is a piece of cake, I can. I can do it. This is not going to hold me. I think that is the key. Is your family supportive of it? Yeah, yeah. My family love it. And I think that's one of the cool things. Sometimes a lot of my cohort difficult. Sometimes. If your spouse or is not a scientist, it's very difficult to say, Okay, I'm working on that mechanism, I'm working on that molecule and doing a Rats, all that stuff, they would not be able to understand it. That's why I struggled when I was working with Dr. Lessman and PKB. I love the project, but my family had no clue what I was doing because they are not scientists, but now they understand. I explained them in simple terms, why we need to do this research, why this is research. If it's out there when the technology comes to market, we can prevent what happens in Covid. They saw the Covid disparity in the vaccination. The disparity in the disease that was like a alarming to them as well. I'm like, yeah, this is similar to Covid, but I'm doing it in a regenerative medicine that is amazing. Also the ability to communicate your scientific, the general public. I think that's one advantage that I think I have is very important to simplify. This also may have a three minute pieces and I participated with multiple times. That gave me a lot of skills because I go to MSD's, which is a weekly meeting which actually in half an hour. Basically we practice and present our research and all the school. What's your goal after graduation? One thing I want to do after graduation is that I want to do the Washington Science Policy Fellowship. Basically, this is a two year fellowship where scientists of BD students are interested in science policy in that realm. To do that two year internship, you do that two years. The Dos, the wide open, you can do exactly policy, Government, FDA, whatever you want because now you speak the policy language. I'm preparing for that as well. Because I'm laying my project in a way that, okay, I thought about this and this is what I want to do and what I want to work on. Thank you to Muhammad Dhani and Professor Rachel Olson for their deep dive into research and life as a Phd candidate. And thank you for listening to Beyond the Nest. Beyond The Nest is produced by University of Minnesota Rochester Alumni Relations and edited by Marshall Saunders with Minnesota Casting Check this episodes shows for how to stay in touch and we'll be back next month for another conversation with an engaging raptor alum.