Welcome  to  be  on  the  Nest, the  University  of  Minnesota, Rochester's  alumni  podcast. I'm  Amber  Milenbein. And  in  today's  episode, we  hear  from  Bethany  O'brien, a  2018  graduate  completing her  final  year  of  veterinary  school. Joined  by  Dr.  Kelsey  Metzger, a  professor  of  biology  at  U. The  two  discuss  the  differences between  patient  care  medicine  and veterinary  medicine  and  the  impact  that UMR  has  had  on  Bethany  and  her  continued  education. They  also  explore  the  importance  of being  curious.  Here  we  go. This  is  Dr.  Metzker, Dr.  Kelsey  Metzker  from  UMR. And  I  have  with  me  today  my  guest, Bethany  L.  Brian,  So  Bethany, why  don't  you  introduce  yourself?  Hi. Yeah.  So  I  am  a  2018  graduate  from UMR  and  now  I  am  in my  fourth  and  final  year  of  Betteriny  School. I'm  from  Rochester. Originally  joke  that  I  was  born, and  it's  not  even  really  a  joke, I  was  born  down the  street  from  where  then  I  went  to  college, but  I  loved  my  time  at  UMR and  definitely  excited  to  talk  about  it  today. Awesome.  What  kinds  of  things  have  you  been  up  to? As  for  fourth  year  veterinary  students, we  have  our  first  three  years that  we  spend  in  the  classroom, but  our  final  year  is  12  months of  clinical  rotations  where  we  spend two  weeks  in  different  specialties  or different  parts  of  the  two  hospitals. The  small  animal  hospital  and  then  there's like  the  large  animal  and  equine  hospitals, and  then  you  get  some  time  for  externships. I  am  over  halfway  through  my  full  clinical  year. This  is  my  last  rotation where  I'm  working  with  clients at  the  small  animal  hospital. Before  I  do  all  externships, this  spring  I've  done  things  like small  ruminant  going  out  to  farms  and  working  with  goats, and  had  surgery  rotations, anesthesia  rotations,  all  different  things. Currently  I'm  on  primary  care. That's  where  my  passion  is, is  working  with  clients  on preventative  medicine  for  their  pets. Right  now,  just  seeing  dogs  and  cats, that's  been  past  couple  of  weeks. Tomorrow  is  my  last  day  on  that  rotation. And  then  Saturday  I  drive  9  hours  down to  Indianapolis  to  start  my  first  externship, where  I'll  be  six  weeks  at  the  Indianapolis  Zoo, come  back  for  two  weeks, and  then  I  go  down  to  Florida,  Melbourne,  Florida, to  the  Breverd  Zoo  for  another  six  weeks as  my  second  externship. Really  excited.  Definitely  a  lot  going  on. Wow.  You've  been  busy  up  to  lots  of  stuff. In  looking  back,  you  grew  up  down  the  street  from  UMR. At  what  point  did  you  recognize  Omar  as a  viable  possibility  for  your  undergraduate  studies? Around  like  when  I  started  becoming  more serious  about  my  search  for  colleges, I  thought  to  myself  like,  okay, my  goals  is  I  want  something  that's  small. I  really  like  that  one  on  one,  both  with  instructors. I  want  to  know  my  peers  and like  develop  those  relationships. I  wanted  something  that gave  me  a  good  perspective  in  medicine, even  though  I've  always  known  I  want  to be  a  veterinarian  truthfully. Like  I'm  very  passionate  about  medicine  in  general. And  so  I  was  looking  for  something  that  had  a  strong pre  med,  pre  area, something  that  I  could  individualize  my  education, which  that  one  was  more  like this  lofty  goal  because  I  really  didn't think  I  was  going  to  find  anything  that would  allow  me  to. Because  the  nice  thing about  getting  into  bed  school  is  that, can  you  just  have  to  take  the  Pre  Rex, but  you  can  get  a  master  sorry, a  bachelor's  in  whatever  you  want. And  I  wanted  that  opportunity  to  have  this  ability  to like  go  and  be  curious  and  find  all  different  passions. And  you  want  to  school  where  you  really  do  that. At  one  point,  I  was  telling  these  things  to  my  dad  and he's  a  professor  at Rochester  Community  and  Technical  College. And  he  was  like,  well,  you  know, that  actually  sounds  a  lot  like  Omar. He's  like,  maybe  you  should  just  look  into  that  one  And  I thought  he  was  like  just  trying to  convince  me  not  to  go  far  or  whatever. Yeah.  But  then  I  went and  took  a  tour  and  chatted with  some  people  there  and  was  like, yeah,  this  is  actually  exactly  what  I'm  looking  for. That's  what  led  me  to  UMR. When  you  actually  got  to  MR, you  started  taking  coursework  and  started interacting  with  those  peers  and  those  faculty  members. What  are  some  of  the  things  you  remember  as like  particularly  poignant  experiences? There's  so  many  things.  I'm  going  to try  so  hard  not  to  get  onto  like  three  page  essay  here. I  think  some  of  my  favorite  things  that  will  stay  with  me forever  and  that  when  I  talk  about you  are  I  always  try  to  talk  about  them. The  first  one  is  sitting  in  your  biology  course. And  at  this  point,  you  know, I've  gone  through  about  a  semester  of school  and  I'm  starting  to  recognize  that  like,  oh, there's  been  a  ton  of  other  students here  who  are  interested  in veterinary  medicine  and  that was  eye  opening  in  of  itself. And  am  I  going  to  find opportunities  here  to  work  with  animals that  because  I  need these  opportunities  to  prepare  me  for  fed  school. You  mentioning,  I  think  it  was  I  don't know  that  you  had  like  a  true  lecture  on  it. I  think  at  that  point  it  had  just  been  like an  offhanded  comment  about  you  did  this  fun  thing  with Corey  Hill  Nature  Center  and the  Northern  Saw  Owl  project  of  going  out, collecting  information  and  then  getting vehicle  swabs  and  bringing  it  back  for  sexing, doing  genetic  sex  tests. And  I  was  instantly  like  I'm  in. I'm  like,  I  don't  know  how  I'm  going  to  convince  her. That  sounds  so  up  my  alley.  And  it's  both. I've  always  loved  genetics  too  on  top  of veterinary  medicine  and  like being  around  animals  and  I'm  like, That  is  that  has  everything that  it  was  just  like  time  after  time  of  UMR, just  like  filling  all  of  my  little  like goals  checking  all  the  boxes. Yeah.  Yeah.  I  did two  weeks  as  one  of  my  rotations  at  the  Raptor  Center, which  is  internationally,  more  or  less  world  renowned. At  the  Raptor  Center  at  the  University  of  Minnesota. Twin  Cities.  Yeah. And  so  they're  very  well  known  and  yeah, we  had  a  little  Northern, so  all  come  in. And  I  just  like  got  so  excited  and  like  all  of  my, you  know,  the  doctors  and  my classmates  who  were  with  me  on  that, like  the  pictures  from  what  I had  done  because  it  was  so  cool  and  like they  used  charts  to  determine  like,  you  know, like  with  different  species  of  birds  or  raptors, they'll  have  charts  on  what  size  is usually  associated  for  male  versus  female. And  they  don't  have  one  for the  northern  side  owls  because  they're  so  it's just  so  much  unknown  still  and they're  very  close  and  we  were  talking  about  that. Anyway,  it  was  just  so  fun  to be  able  to  recount  that  experience. And  so  for  anybody  who's  listening  to  the  podcast  should pause  right  now  and  just  do a  quick  Google  search  for  Northern  Sat. Owl  is  the  cutest  little  thing. It's  the  smallest  migratory  bird, or  smallest  migratory  owl  that  we have  come  through  Minnesota. And  so  just  to  give  you  a  visual  of the  Northern  Sat  Owl  that  Beth's  talking  about. Well,  that's  definitely  one of  them  and  that's  my  very  specific  experience. But  I  think  overall,  you  Mark, I  ended  up  my  second  going  into  third  year  vet  school, decided  to  pursue  a  dual  degree in  DBM  and  getting  a  Masters  of  Public  Health. Umr  is  the  reason  that,  one, I  was  prepared  to  do  that  and  two, wanted  to  go  for  an  MPH. I  built  so  many  relationships  both  with  faculty  and  with students  in  various  areas  of  medicine, outside  of  veterinary  medicine. And  moving  towards  the  human  side  of medicine  that  I  developed  is  like  it's  passion and  I  would  sometimes  get  on soap  boxes  even  in  vet  school about  why  veterans  I  phrase  it, why  veterinarians  deserve  to be  sitting  at  the  round  table  of medicine  when we  talk  about  interprofessional  collaboration. Why  veterinarians  need  to  be there  just  as  much  as  any  other  human  medicine. That's  what  my  master's  degree  is  focusing  on. Like  I'm  doing  my  capstone  project  for  my  MPH on  that  and  working  with  I  did  two  years. So  it  was  part  of  the,  like, initial  first  interprofessional  internship. And  then  went  on  to  be  a  co  leader for  that  internship  program  with the  Office  of  Academic  Clinical  Affairs. And  then  also  worked  as  they  were  developing the  Center  for  Interprofessional  Health. And  every  time  I  do  something  and  I  talk  about, and  I  get  so  passionate  about talking  about  interprofessional  medicine. That's  UMR.  That's  like  definitely  prepared  me  for  that. Like  that  is  you  and  Mar  shining  through  in  that  moment because  it's  absolutely,  I  mean, just  learning  how  much we  have  in  common  between  the  two  fields. Like  we  share  everything, our  research  we  share  like the  core  passion  for  our  patients  and  how to  discuss  things  and  especially  how  to  discuss difficult  things  without  using  the  medical  jargon. Like  I  mean,  that's  all  the  same  training and  I  wouldn't  have  known  that. I  would  not  have  been, I  would  not  have  understood  that  if  it  weren't  for. Those  relationships  at  UMR  and developing  that  through  that  time. So  yeah,  I  think  faculty  member  at  UMR, I  can  speak  from  my  experience that  I  always  learn  things  from  students. Whether  it's  to  do  cohort  of students  or  students  that  I'm  working  one  on  one with  for  independent  research or  directed  studies  with  you. You  were  the  student  who  introduced me  to  this  idea  of  one  health,  right? The  connection  between  human  health, animal  health  and  environmental  health. And  you  really  can't  look  at  any  of those  independently  from  one  another. I  have  seen  that  phrase  and  that  ideology  or  perspective, the  one  health  perspective  just  grow  in influence  and  in  prevalence over  the  years  since  you've  introduced  it  to  me. But  I  think  that  gets  to  what  you're  talking about,  this  necessary  connection. If  we  really  want  to  focus  on  human  health, we  can't  really  do  that  fully unless  we  look  at  the  environments  in  which we  live  and  the  animals  with  which we  interact,  and  all  that. The  University  of  Minnesota, Rochester  recently  released  the  fourth  edition of  the  Alumni  Magazine. The  Kettle,  a  term derived  following  field  observations  of  hawks. Kettle  means  a  group  of  soaring  raptors. This  year  features  raptor  alumni  making an  impact  in  the  healthcare  field  in  Minnesota, nationally  and  across  the  globe. As  well  as  faculty  and  staff  who  challenge  growth  and learning  in  students  and  reflections  from  Mars. First  Chancellor  on  the  early  days  of  campus. Read  more  from  this  year's  edition  at  Z  kettle. You're  talking  about  UMRnis  that  has  served  you  well. I  heard  a  couple  key  phrases  I'm  going  to  pick  up  on. One  was  like  interdisciplinary  collaboration. You're  talking  about  working  with professionals  from  different  areas. Collaboration  also  in  terms of  like  with  other  students,  I  mean, these  are  just  like  very  much  a  part of  the  UMR  experience. It  also  sounds  like  you  have  a  lot  of confidence  talking  about  what  you  know, and  also  some  persuasion in  using  evidence  to  bring others  to  your  way  of  thinking. Do  you  think  that  that's  accurate or  would  you  characterize  it  differently? Yeah,  I  mean,  no  one  likes  to  say  that. They  know  they  can  sound  a  lot  more  confident  and  stuff. But  yeah,  all  of  those  skills, especially  when  talking  about  collaboration  and just  being  able  to  work  together to  solve  these  problems that  we  face  in  medicine  are  old  problems, but  the  only  way  we  can  find these  new  and  better  solutions  is  through  collaboration. That's  definitely  something  I  learned  at  UMR. Those  tools  then  I  brought  with  me  to  vet  school. I  utilize  them  but  also  strengthen  them by  I  did  that  internship and  worked  with  different  programs  now  as I'm  working  on  my  MPH  and  stuff still  further  strengthening  those  skills. And  then  hopefully,  then  as  I  graduate  here  in  May, I'll  be  able  to  use  them  and  rely  on  those  skills  in my  career  to  make  the  career  that  I  find  fulfilling. But  also  hopefully  to  change  the  way that  finding  these  solutions  to  old  problems and  changing  the  way  that  we  view one  health  as  a  whole  and  medicine  as  a  whole. I  imagine  though  that  it  wasn't always  easy  that  there were  probably  some  points  that  you  were  like, oh,  this  isn't  my  favorite  or  oh, this  is  really  a  stretch. Are  there  challenges  that you  remember  facing  and  how  did  you  work  through  them? Yeah,  it  definitely  like I  wish  I  could  say  that  it  was  all  a  breeze. I  never  had  any  concerns. I  think  one  of  the  reasons  I  am  so passionate  about  telling  people  that veterinarians  should  be  at  this  round  table  of health  care  is  because  there was  a  time  where  I  wasn't  invited, my  peers  didn't  know  my  career. I  barely  understood  my  career. We're  talking  the  very  beginnings  of  my  education. Even  though  I  was  like,  well,  I  know  what  a  T  does. I  wanted  to  be  a  vet  since  I  was  a  baby,  Like,  you  know. And  sometimes  I  felt  really  isolating. I  was  the  only  ended  up  being  the  only  student  in my  class  and  of  my  friends  who  went  on  to  vet  school, who  had  any  interest  in  veterinary  medicine which  felt  isolating. There  are  questions  like,  well, why  am  I  going  to  work  with  animals  if like  going  into  human  medicine  is  seen  as  better? Or  that's  what  all  my  friends are  doing  and  like  maybe  that's what  I  should  be  doing  And  I  felt  different  from  them. Like  felt  like,  especially  my  first  year, it  felt  like  everything  when  I  would  compare  myself. Which  you  should  never  compare  yourself, but  you  felt  good  advice. Yes.  When  I  would  compare  myself  to  my  peers, I  felt  like  all  I  see  are  differences. Like  I  don't  know  that  I  belong  here. Maybe  I  made  a  mistake  in  this  and I  don't  know  what  the  turning  point  was. I  wish  I  did. Maybe  it  was  the  one  health  at  that  time. Maybe  it  was  just,  I  don't  know. Maybe  it  was  some  conversation that  I  can't  pinpoint  exactly. But  differences  like  started  to  become similarities  in  just  like a  new  perspective  or  a  new  light. Like  now  like  I  would  not  change  a  thing  at  all. And  I  think  that,  that  struggle in  the  beginning  of  my  education  was  so important  for  building  who  I  am  and  what  I  do  now. Yeah,  I  think  so  many  students  would  be able  to  relate  to  that  idea  of having  a  pathway  that  doesn't  seem exactly  the  same  as  what  your  peers  are  doing. And  then  questioning  like,  well, if  that's  what  they're  doing  or  if that's  what  seems  to  be  valued,  can  be  really  hard. And  isolating  like  you  were  saying,  to  go  your  own  path. But  I  think  that  discovery  and  really  finding what  direction  is  the  right  fit  for  you  or the  right  perspective  along that  journey,  that's  right  for  you. That  is  just  crucial  to finding  satisfaction  and  really  that  true  sense of  belonging  with  your  chosen  path,  really  insightful. It's  kind  of  those  things  like  if  you're  going to  compare  yourself  to  your  peers, do  it  through  this  lens  of  what  about, what  can  I  learn  from our  differences  and  where  can  I find  similarities  that  I  didn't  think  they  existed? And  that  perspective  can  shift  everything. I  feel  like  at  least  it  did  for me  over  simplification  to  say  well,  for  everyone, yeah,  Omar  has  been named  a  college  of  distinction  for the  2023  24  academic  year. Marking  its  commitment  to  providing a  high  quality  undergraduate  education that  focuses  on  hands  on  learning, strong  student  faculty  relationships, a  vibrant  campus  life,  and  successful  outcomes. This  is  the  second  year  in  a  row  that Umar  has  achieved  This  honor, Omar  has  earned  additional  recognition in  the  areas  of  career  development  for supporting  students  with  comprehensive  four  year  plans, personalized  advising, and  more  and  equity  and inclusion  for  their  concerted  effort to  promote  fair  treatment  and access  at  all  levels  with  resources  and programming  that  grant  extra  support to  underrepresented  communities. Well,  what's  next  in  your  journey? Ben? You're  in  your  fourth  year  veterinary  school. What  comes  next? Throughout  school,  I've  been  really  good  at  having  this. Like  I've  got  two  paths and  someday  I  will  decide  which  one  I  go  down. Now  we're  like  at  the  end  of  my  fourth  year. And  I'm  actually  going  to  have  to  decide  I  have a  huge  passion  for  conservation medicine,  working  with  zoos. When  I  was  actually  at Mar  between  my  second  and  third  year, I  did  do  keeping  internship  with  the  Minnesota  Zoo. I  worked  with  birds.  It  was  an  amazing  experience. I  never  thought  that  birds  could  be, just  teach  me  so  much, but  penguins  are  my  favorite,  they  always  will  be. During  that  whole  experience, I  realized  how  passionate  I  am  about  conservation. And  then  also  into professionals  working  with  the  keepers, working  with  other  environmentalists and  everything  that  was  in  that  area of  one  health  that  I  really  started  to love  at  bed  school. I  did  a  lot  of  exotics, extra  electives  or  joining clubs  that  worked  with  exotics. And  the  payoff  then  is  that  I  get  to have  these  really  fun  externships. These  are  in  addition  to  all  of the  normal  animals  that  you  see  most  vet  sea  today  today that  I'm  doing  these  12  weeks  of  extern  ships working  with  these  two  different  zoos  to  get  an  idea  of what  working  as  a  veteran  in  a  zoo  field  would  be like  to  become  a  zoo  veterinarian. Once  you  graduate,  you  usually  do a  year  of  a  rotating  internship at  an  academic  institution. Typically,  there's  a  couple  of other  specialties  that  will  operate, but  where  you  do  everything, either  small  animal  or  large  animal, and  you're  doing  like  the  internal  medicine  surgery, sometimes  primary  care  or  ER, going  through  conscious  rotations  of  that, almost  like  fourth  year  all  over  again. And  then  you'll  do  another  internship the  year  after  that  at  a  zoo. And  then  you'll  do  three  years of  a  residency  with  the  zoo. During  that  time,  you're  working  on getting  your  seven  publications. And  after  you've  done those  publications  and  you're about  halfway  through  your  residency, you  sit  for  medicine  boards which  takes  you  usually  a  couple  times  to  pass. That  was  always  one  route  that  I  kept  open. I  thought  I  was  hoping  that  these  extra  ships  will give  me  a  better  idea of  what  that  environment  would  be  like. What  I  decided  now  that  I'm  coming  up  on  this  timeline, I  have  to  decide  is  that  I  am  going  to  go into  private  practice  in  Southern  Minnesota, there  a  couple  of different  clinics  that  I've  been  talking  with. And  hopefully  find  one  that  gives  me the  opportunity  to  work  with  as  many  species  as  possible. The  large  animals,  the  small  animals,  the  exotics. And  then  some  day  utilizing  those  skills  that  I  have  in zoo  to  help  out  as  like  a really  or  something  on  that  level, but  probably  won't  ever  sit  for my  boards  or  anything  like  that. We  I  think  we're  getting  to  the  end  of  our  conversation. I'm  going  to  give  you  the  last  word  if  there are  sage  words  of advice  that  you  have  for  a  student  who's  considering UMR  or  who's  maybe  in  one of  those  difficult  moments  at  UMR. Or  even  if  you  could  go  back  in time  and  give  advice  to  yourself, what  are  some  of  the  things  you  would  share? The  big  question  for  as long  as  I've  been  alive or  as  long  as  I  can  at  least  remember, I've  wanted  to  be  a  veterinarian  coming  into  UMR. I  was  like,  I  know  what  I'm  here  for. I  know  what  I  want  out  of  my  future. I  am  going  to  stay  on  my  path because  I  know  exactly  what I  want  and  I  want  to  get  there. And  I  don't  want  to  make  a  mistake. Because  if  I  make  a  mistake  it  might, I  could  lose  the  one  goal  that  I've  had  since  I  was a  baby  if  I  could  give  myself  one  piece of  advice  at  the  beginning  of  my  humor  career, is  that  being  curious and  making  mistakes  because you're  just  curious  about  something. And  like  being  curious  means  you  don't  know  about  it. And  since  you  don't  know  about  it, you  are  going  to  make  mistakes. And  that's  okay. And  that's  really  good  because  you  don't  learn  and  you don't  grow  both  your  knowledge  as  a  person, if  you're  not  making  those  mistakes. If  you're  not  letting  yourself  be  curious  and  to question  the  things  around  you  or the  things  that  you  always, you  thought  that  you  always  knew. And  it's  good  to  be  like  I  have, I'm  on  this  path  because  this  is what  I  want  and  it's  good  to  know  what  you  want. Like  you  can  have  your  singular  path, but  it's  okay  to  still  be  like,  yeah, even  though  I'm  really  interested  in  veterinary  medicine, I'm  also  curious  about  other  things  like, you  know,  what  does  it  mean  to  be  a  geneticist? What  does  it,  what  does  it  mean  to  be like  a  social  worker  or something  so  far  outside  your  field? Those  are  all  good  things  and  those  help  create new  lenses  when  you  look  at  the  world to  understand  and  have  these  different  perspectives. Nice.  I  think  that's  the  most  important  part  and that's  something  I  love  that  Mar  was  able  to  teach  me. Well,  congratulations  on  being in  your  fourth  year  and  being  so  far along  your  path  reaching this  goal  that  you  knew  you  had  forever. We're  so  proud  of  you  and  of  course we  want  you  to  stay  in  touch.  Thank  you. Thank  you  for  listening  to  Beyond  the  Nest. Umar's  alumni  podcast. Beyond  the  Nest  is  produced  by Umar  Marketing  and  Communications  in collaboration  with  UMR  Alumni  Relations and  edited  by  Dante  Fumo. We'll  be  back  soon  with  more  from our  Raptor  alumni  until  next  time.